extruder block temperature errors

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southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:44 pm

Good ay ppl , I had to replace the extruder block a few days ago because it kept coming up with a error saying "nozzle too hot" , it was getting up to 140% and freezing the printer . now it's going back and forth with that same error AND "nozzle too cool" dropping down to about 80 - 75% ... this is happening with different models and at random (aprox every third to forth print) .
has anyone else had this problem and what was the solution ... i'm scratching my head here out of ideas

thanks
southoz

mb20music
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 am
Location: USA

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by mb20music » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:54 pm

I am wondering if maybe there is a break in the ribbon cable wire, you should be able to test for continuity if you have a multi meter.

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:00 am

done that about 2 weeks ago , tested all the connections , even tried to flash the rom with a copy send to me from the support company .. rom cant be flashed at all and they dont have a clue why

Neal
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:26 pm

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by Neal » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:21 pm

I had this problem for a while, although it was intermittent. I would wiggle the ribbon cable connector, at the extruder, and it would be OK for awhile. Eventually I got a new ribbon cable and the problem has not re-occurred.

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Lawrence
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 12:24 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by Lawrence » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:48 am

Hi
I had this problem for a while, although it was intermittent. I would wiggle the ribbon cable connector, at the extruder, and it would be OK for awhile. Eventually I got a new ribbon cable and the problem has not re-occurred.
Thank you for this information.
My Up!Plus has the same temperature error.
I will check the ribbon cable.
Regards
Lawrence

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:50 pm

I have checked , and double checked the cable and nothing wrong with it what so ever , I have been having logic problems with the printer for months , in all fact I can not print anything complicated at all without using the Fixup3d patch to slow the printer down other wise it keeps hitting the models and shifting on the both the x and y axis . I can not flash the rom and to date the company just keeps replacing all the broken parts every month when it starts hitting and breaking them.
to date no one can explain why so many parts have broken (one or two parts a month since brand new) and the company can not tell me why the rom wont flash (and yes i have tried on other computers) . it's 9 months old now I want it fixed once and for all before the warranty runs out

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by roller » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:59 am

Remember in Australia (I presume you are Aussie from your username) you are protected by consumer law. You are perfectly entitled to demand a full replacement or even a full refund. When the issue can be seen to be a major problem (repeat issues are automatically such) it is the consumers choiceas to whether it continues in repair, is replaced or a refund is issued.

Start here if you need to understand better: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... ace-refund

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:21 pm

Last second to last time it was acting up they sent an agent down who took it with him and he done a few test prints (nothing complicated what so ever but a semi decent size) , they replaced the x-axis block on the belt and said nothing was wrong with it . almost as soon as I got back it was still hitting the models the comments from them were like I was using a solid fill and printing too fast (I sent them a video of it while it was still printing after a hit) both the x an y axis had shifted quite a lot . I told them I was printing in Normal mode and broke open the base of the model to show I was using 25% fill only( took still pictures and emailed to them). still nothing but excuses , straight after that the nozzle errors started at first it was only nozzle too hot , they sent me a new extruder hot end .. ok I installed it and kept printing , just days later ... nozzle too cold error , now it go's between the two randomly (it's about ever forth to fifth print now , I sent them still pictures of the screen errors) . with the error of the models being hit I had resolved this by using the fixup3d patch and slowing down the printer (works well) , after I told them this I requested a rom file to flash the rom , took about 2 to 3 weeks but they did finally send the one I needed ... ok Rom cant be flashed at all, keeps coming up with errors, I informed them about this and once again sent them a screen shot ... and nothing from them at all in weeks , I did ask for a replacement over a month ago and a month before that , but to date they will only send me the parts to fix it myself and refuse to replace it at all .

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by roller » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:17 pm

I suggest you do three things.

1. Out them here on the forums as they are clearly not doing the right thing by you and also breaking the law - So you should have no qualms helping others shoose a different source for their printer. The bad publicity may help them get their act together to have you follow up with a good news story.

2. Let us know where you are - one of us who pulls down printers more often might be abe to lend a hand.

3. Report them to the ACCC and the office of fair trading in state which they trade.

Happy for you to PM me if you want to discuss anything out of the public forum.

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:46 pm

In a few days when I finish the current project ,i'm taking off the fixup3d patch and going to do the same prints in normal mode and post the results on youtube , their company name an logo are on the printer so they will get the message

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:22 am

Have just spoken to consumer affair and gave them all the details of all the replacements and brake downs I have had with this printer , they were shocked that the support company have ignored two previous demands for a replacement , going to wait for two more prints to see if they finish without any more errors , if every thing is ok then no problem , if it ends with two more failed prints being hit by the nozzle or another temperature error ... thats it .. i'll be demanding a replacement (AGAIN) and this time i'll have consumer affairs on my side.
parts that have been replaced so far
3 x x-axis belt block
1 x z-axis bearing
1 x z-axis stepper motor
3 x extruder hot end
1 x heat bed
1 x x-axis linear bearing
and the printers rom can not be flashed at all ....
just in 8 months
this is what happened earlier today , the nozzle hit the model and made a huge shift on the x-axis
IMG_20150414_124421.jpg
IMG_20150414_124421.jpg (90.04 KiB) Viewed 20558 times

twocycler
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:09 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by twocycler » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:16 pm

In my experience, when the head hits the model it is because the model has warped, lifted, or has layer delamination so that one corner of the model becomes higher than the previous layer height. I really don't know what to make of all the problems that you have had with your mini. I bought mine direct from PP3DP during the first week it was released. I have had a few nozzle clogs (as I do on my Plus) and I have replaced the thermostat chip with an 80C part. Unlike some of the other users here, I have had no problems and the Mini has been a real workhorse for me. I wish you luck in solving your problems.

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:39 pm

I have the Up Plus 2 , not the mini . and there is NO warping , lifting or segment de-lamination with the models what so ever , smaller prints have been going good lately , larger prints how ever have been a total hit and miss if you'll excuse the pun , after every bad hit i have to recalibrate the printer ,as you can see with the list of replacement parts above there has been some major issues with this printer
the picture here is of the last print that was hit , this time it shifted on the y-axis , also note : the temperature errors have stopped ... i have not changed anything at all , they just stopped
y-axis fail.jpg
y-axis fail.jpg (146.1 KiB) Viewed 20546 times

southoz
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:39 am

Ok i had to share this with everyone , this is part copy of an email sent to me be by the Official support company for the Up plus 2 and Up Mini In my country .

"If you print the rabbit out, and if you look very closely you'll notice that the chest of the rabbit lifts and the nozzle hits it. Does it every time! This leads to a rough underside surface. Print a golf ball size sphere and you'll see the same effect. As your model has a similar curve and underside effect (depending on the material being used) this will cause it to lift. Nozzle hits the model and skips. Something has to give. "

Now either that means that the Official support company for the Up printers is saying there is a design flaw with the Up Plus 2 printers or the printer are not able to handle other brands of ABS filament

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:10 am

Just got a call from the support company here , after a talk I told them I wanted an new printer .. so they told me to drop this printer off to their rep in South Australia

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wackojacko
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Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by wackojacko » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:47 am

Is the nozzle hitting the model or the model hitting the nozzle - that is the question.

If the model hits the nozzle what could be the cause
The z axis lifting up - you would see the table lifting up slightly
Split plastic printed belt clamps on X or Y - the head looses grip on the belt
Possible overheat of the X or Y stepper motors if you have printer in enclosed chamber
Possible overheat of motherboard stepper controller if you have printer in enclosed chamber

BUT the most common is because of the filament/model lifting during printing!!
Bruce
http://www.3DPrintingSystems.com

Need help with your printer, check out our Youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/3dprinting ... /playlists

roller
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by roller » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:16 pm

southoz ... every ABS print warps. In small prints the warp is small ... in large prints and certain shapes the warp is a problem. There are some things I can barely get a good print in a heated chamber (to reduce warp) simply because the print is so prone to warping. Keep in mind I have 4 different printers at my disposal and have had more than 50 I've used fairly often in the last few years (I build and tune them) so this expereince comes not just from the Up.

You may not be able to percieve warp i.e the print may not be lifting from the bed or raft but generally if it's hitting the nozzle it is because part of the print has warped OR is too hard for the print algorithms to get stable and consistent (this often happens in thin zones). This is the nature of FDM/FFF (fused filament) printing. I occassionally have to tell customers their print is unprintable and we either rework the design to prevent warp or we take it to another prototyping method.

So if your printer keeps failing on the same print that is a useless test. Find another big print and see how you go - the more solid (fill) it has though, the more likely it is to warp. It might just be your print is impossible not the printer is flawed. A heated enclosure may get your print working too.

Large prints will actually often be more hit and miss on the Plus than the Mini due to the lack of an enclosure (provided you can keep the print sticking on the Mini and it's stupid cool bed).

From your more recent posts you've tended to make me wonder if you are just expecting too much of the technology. ABS warps ... always.

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:23 am

if it was just a case of warping I would just go on an change the parameters( rotation / angle ext: ) , even the support company can not sufficiently explain why that printer has had so many parts break in just a short amount of time , they themselves admitted it was very rare , and when the printer starts hitting (no matter the material being used) sure enough another part would break , I did get an enclosure for that printer to reduce the warping along with a temperature sensor to activate a exhaust fan to keep a constant environment inside of the enclosure , if it was just happening with abs alone then yes I would say that warping was the main factor , but I have used pla , t-glase , and nylon all with the same results . The enclosure does not cover any of the stepper motors or the vents to the main board , with the exception of the stepper on the extruder . the pictures that I put on the is board last week showing the results of the print being shifted in the x and y axis are of a model (two different prints of the same model ) that I have successfully printed more than 5 times without a single problem , with each bad hit I would off cause recalibrate the printer just in case there was some slippage in the belts. yesterday morning before the printer was picked up I was printing a different model altogether, there, once it got passed the 121mm mark it started hitting that model as well .. believe me I would not bitch if i couldnt print a few models that is part and package of these printers and I am well aware of that , how ever when I am getting major errors from the printer at random then I think I have a reason to complain , that printer was out of action more and more and the random errors were increasing with time.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by roller » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:06 am

Parts should not break unless the job peels off and becomes a tangled catastrophe and all the repairs have probably not helped things. That's why I said earlier you really need to just get a replacement (or refund) and start over.

What I was saying is that now that you have replaced all these parts the behaviour you are reporting may be normal. Big prints will have a much greater propensity to catch on the nozzle due to warping. That is simply the nature of FFF printing.... and yes all those filaments warp just not very much but once prints are big even a small warping adds up to quite a bit - enough for a misprint.

This is not to say this in any way relates to your earlier issues but that this 3D printing method is not perfect. You need to appreciate you are going to have to potentially have to battle with bigger prints.

On that enclosure I would never use a fan to "maintin temp" - when I want an enclosure the hotter the better and may heat will tend to be fairly consistent.

southoz
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 am

Re: extruder block temperature errors

Post by southoz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:21 pm

well I thought everything was settled and they agreed to send me a replacement printer , the printer was picked up from my place last Thursday and I was told over the phone that the new printer was likely to be sent out on Monday , so today I was making inquiries as to the tracking number from their courier ... big surprise no new printer , instead they are testing my printer and offered in the mean time a second hand (the company I brought the printer off owners personal Up Plus 2) for a few weeks so i can use it in the mean time while they continue to test my printer , so I have now sent the company I purchased the printer off a email (sorry mate I know none off this your doing) and support company a copy of that email with the contact to consumer affairs and the complaint number . From this point I dont know what is going to happen at all but I will keep you updated

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