Stepper Gear Wearing

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brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:25 am

So, I've only had this for a few months. I run it fairly constantly.

I'm trying to run a print, and it has been jamming up constantly. Different layer heights and settings etc.

each time, I clean out the whole extrusion system, including brushing the plastic off the Stepper gear.

Today, I've noticed that the gear teeth appear pretty worn, and there seems to be a sort of groove developed.

Is this normal, or should I be looking for a replacement? Preferably under warranty as I would expect this to last at least a year before needing to replaced metal teeth that are only used to move plastic.
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brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:04 am

Thanks to TT and to Local reseller support...motor was replaced under warranty.

Apparently they sent me an upgraded version as they don't make these ones anymore...

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:13 am

brunningm wrote:Thanks to TT and to Local reseller support...motor was replaced under warranty.

Apparently they sent me an upgraded version as they don't make these ones anymore...
Hi. Glad you got it sorted.

When you get the new one would you mind posting pics please? (I've recently had a "faulty out of the box" extruder replaced, but the replacement looks very much like the one you posted above.)

Cheers,

Owen S.

brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:21 am

OwenSparks wrote:
brunningm wrote:Thanks to TT and to Local reseller support...motor was replaced under warranty.

Apparently they sent me an upgraded version as they don't make these ones anymore...
Hi. Glad you got it sorted.

When you get the new one would you mind posting pics please? (I've recently had a "faulty out of the box" extruder replaced, but the replacement looks very much like the one you posted above.)

Cheers,

Owen S.
Sorry, been installed for about a week and currently running a print. I'll try to remember when I do a nozzle swap/gear clean.

If it helps, the motor has no holes on the side for mounting a fan, and the gear doesn't have that thin metal tab.

I had to print a new fan mount/channel. It's good in a way, because now I don't have to unscrew the motor fan to remove the shroud and just have to unplug them.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:40 am

Absolutely no rush, just curious.

Cheers,

Owen S.

brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:56 am

OwenSparks wrote:
brunningm wrote:Thanks to TT and to Local reseller support...motor was replaced under warranty.

Apparently they sent me an upgraded version as they don't make these ones anymore...
Hi. Glad you got it sorted.

When you get the new one would you mind posting pics please? (I've recently had a "faulty out of the box" extruder replaced, but the replacement looks very much like the one you posted above.)

Cheers,

Owen S.
So got a jam...took a couple of shots while cleaning it out.

So, the left hand side used to have four holes to mount the fan...those are gone, and the fan mounts to a printed part instead.

The Stepper Gear is also different. Doesn't have that metal tab on the face and actually seems like it cuts a little deeper.
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Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:26 am

Hi.

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Confirms my suspicions. I had a new extruder of the type that you list in your last post. It was faulty out of the box. The toothed gear just fell off the shaft. (It was so loose you could slide it up and down with one fingertip.)

It was replaced quickly under warranty with the type you list earlier in your post, that is to say the type with the circlip retaining the gear on the shaft. It seemed a logical conclusion that the design with the clip was the latest iteration, put in place to stop loose gears. Your experience puts doubt on that though.

TT please will you comment on what is the current spec of extruder?

Cheers,

Owen S.

brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:55 am

OwenSparks wrote:Hi.

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Confirms my suspicions. I had a new extruder of the type that you list in your last post. It was faulty out of the box. The toothed gear just fell off the shaft. (It was so loose you could slide it up and down with one fingertip.)

It was replaced quickly under warranty with the type you list earlier in your post, that is to say the type with the circlip retaining the gear on the shaft. It seemed a logical conclusion that the design with the clip was the latest iteration, put in place to stop loose gears. Your experience puts doubt on that though.

TT please will you comment on what is the current spec of extruder?

Cheers,

Owen S.
I had a 'discussion' with the local rep for about 20 minutes. The problem is, there is no way of knowing which part is the latest vs the one I got or had.

The part I had to print was the dual fan extruder cover.

The readme for the Motor I got (was told this by the local team)

The UP BOX+ has an upgraded Extruder with better cooling effect. Tiertime has been working on improving the UP BOX extruder with the same effect.

Now we have two options to achieve the goal.

1. Upgrade the UP BOX Extruder with a brand new extruder.

Item Name SKU Retail Price
Extruder V4 for UP BOX - Dual-fan BC0636 $160

2. Upgrade the old UP BOX Extruder by replacing the necessary spare parts and plastic parts.


The reason I argued, was because this text seems to imply that the motor I got was an upgrade for the original UPbox, and not for the UPbox+, but they were adamant that it was better than the one I had.

However, the one I had has a sticker with 'V5' on it, and now I have what appears to be a V4 (No label on motor, just this readme)

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:17 am

Eeek, clear as mud, i feel your pain!

TT please will you provide some details as to what's going on here?

Cheers,

Owen S.

brunningm
Posts: 210
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:13 am

And of course...if you get one round of grinding you get 10.

Filament keeps jamming...The motor on these seems to be a bit weak...

My last printer cost 1/4 of this and didn't give me half as much trouble with anything but the bed levelling.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:38 am

brunningm wrote: Filament keeps jamming...The motor on these seems to be a bit weak...
I'd say if the motor has enough power to chew a crescent shaped hole in the filament when it jams then the problem is elsewhere. ( Partially blocked nozzle, temps off, overheated stepper pre-softening filament before reaching heater block etc).

Are you a PLA man or an ABS man?

Cheers,

Owen S.

brunningm
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:19 pm

OwenSparks wrote:
brunningm wrote: Filament keeps jamming...The motor on these seems to be a bit weak...
I'd say if the motor has enough power to chew a crescent shaped hole in the filament when it jams then the problem is elsewhere. ( Partially blocked nozzle, temps off, overheated stepper pre-softening filament before reaching heater block etc).

Are you a PLA man or an ABS man?

Cheers,

Owen S.
PLA mostly.

Currently eSun PLA+, which runs a bit hotter. Between 205 and 225. I'm running it at 220. I've printed in ABS before at 270 without too much issue, so Im not sure this is an issue.

This is the second motor, and I've got four nozzles I clean pretty regularly.

It could just be a bad roll. Happened before.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:27 am

This is still the best solution as the grind-outs can occur if the filament looses diameter in any section due to tolerance issues and they happen far more than you can imagine.

https://www.up3d.com/community/viewtopi ... year#p5473

All the files are there, mod them for your machine and never worry about that issue again.

Regards
Drew
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

brunningm
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:47 am

That's a hell of a solution. My first printer cost less.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:54 am

DrewPetitclerc wrote:This is still the best solution as the grind-outs can occur if the filament looses diameter in any section due to tolerance issues and they happen far more than you can imagine.

https://www.up3d.com/community/viewtopi ... year#p5473

All the files are there, mod them for your machine and never worry about that issue again.

Regards
Drew
Wow, great stuff Drew! Just been looking at methods of making the bits.

For the larger part (that looks like the existing bearing carrier on the extruder):-

My MF onyx-pro machine will make a carbon loaded nylon part with as much continuous glass fiber as will fit for $1.56
This isn't great as some of the detail is too small to add the continuous fiber too but with a bit of tweaking perhaps...

Then just for the hell of it, and because MF added the option to their slicer last night, I ran it again to see how much it would cost to print on their Metal X machine in stainless steel. (Yes real stainless, not PLA with glitter in it) and it was, erm $1.26! Now I don't have one of those printers (yet) but perhaps we should find someone who has?

Cheers,
Owen S.

brunningm
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:15 pm

I have no idea what I'm looking for to get this made...Probably someone with a CNC?

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

There's 2 things going on with this mod. The gripper, and the additional cooling. I't be nice to know if one or other has the most impact. If it's cooling then we could handle that with some printed parts...

brunningm
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by brunningm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:23 pm

OwenSparks wrote:There's 2 things going on with this mod. The gripper, and the additional cooling. I't be nice to know if one or other has the most impact. If it's cooling then we could handle that with some printed parts...
Sorry, should have specified the gripper side of things.

Says it needs to be in metal. So would most likely need to be CNC'd, but I'm wondering if casting is an option.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:00 am

brunningm wrote:
OwenSparks wrote:There's 2 things going on with this mod. The gripper, and the additional cooling. I't be nice to know if one or other has the most impact. If it's cooling then we could handle that with some printed parts...
Sorry, should have specified the gripper side of things.

Says it needs to be in metal. So would most likely need to be CNC'd, but I'm wondering if casting is an option.
Howdy. The point I was failing to make was that there are 2 mods here. It might be that just better cooling will be enough, in which case that's the easy bit. If we wish the gripper part then that's the harder bit. Also worth noting that the example isn't for the UPBOX print head so we'd need to modify the design to suit.

Casting might be interesting, but I'd CNC or print in metal. (You'd still need to machine the casting for the pivot pin and bearing so might as well machine the whole thing.)

I have a toy CNC machine here so might be able to have a play if I get some free time... I'm wondering if it might be good to have 2 toothed wheels (one each side of the filament) rather than one toothed and one smooth. The other side of me thinks that if the gear is chewing into the filament then we're treating the symptom not the disease...

Owen S.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Stepper Gear Wearing

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:06 pm

OwenSparks wrote:
brunningm wrote:
OwenSparks wrote:I'm wondering if it might be good to have 2 toothed wheels (one each side of the filament) rather than one toothed and one smooth. The other side of me thinks that if the gear is chewing into the filament then we're treating the symptom not the disease...

Owen S.
Chewing the filament from both sides before pushing it down the tube has a few problems, one is the gap between the gears and the tube opening is a relief valve for the plastic to "elbow" out and cause a jam, look at the trouble "rubber" filaments have with this design of "pusher" extruder.
Next would be the pulsations in the the outflow caused by the gaps made by the teeth in the filament, these lead to trapped air and pulse or pops in outflow from the nozzle, in observing the first lay down of the plastic if you look closely you will see this as a pulse in the width of the line being laid down some of it can be due to stepping but I have observed odd pulses and pops, even the smoothest looking print these pulses can be seen if you look closely.
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

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