Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

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Madox
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Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by Madox » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:41 am

Instead of using Prototyping PCB :-

Custom PCB
Dimensioned to fit Up! Platform exactly 140x140. <--- No nasty cutting
Diagonally drilled holes, 2mm distance in X, 1mm distance in Y, offset by 1mm every Y 'row'. <--- The rafts will fall in...
Maybe even a different hole patter on the perimeter.
PR4, never Paper Phenolic (BH84 or something?)

I guess this will cost $5-10 each. I wouldn't mind paying $20 if PP3DP does this officially through their web-store.

I was tempted to do it and order 30 for resale but I'm in Australia and shipping here to anybody is a $%@^ :> So who is in HK/China? :>

trebuchet03
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by trebuchet03 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:29 am

I'm already on it....

But, I'm resource/bandwidth limited....

$5-$10 each? That's crazy expensive :p Well, maybe in these small volumes :p

I've got some other tricks up my sleeves (unfortunately, more expensive than $20) :p
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Madox
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by Madox » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:51 am

trebuchet03 wrote:I'm already on it....

But, I'm resource/bandwidth limited....

$5-$10 each? That's crazy expensive :p Well, maybe in these small volumes :p

I've got some other tricks up my sleeves (unfortunately, more expensive than $20) :p
Come on hurry and get them made and send one off to me :)

Actually I was thinking I was converted to PCBs... until a model completely fell off the platform on me...spaghetti mess was very...erm...weird...

-soapy-
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by -soapy- » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:36 am

It'll be expensive because of the number of holes they have to drill - that takes longer, so costs more.

I'd suggest getting a laser cutter to do something like this, and have it done as "zero width" slots as a series of dashes, all the way over the surface. Don't forget it doesn't have to be PCB material, either, anything fairly rigid should be fine. Fibreglass PCB is just a handy thing to use.

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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by trebuchet03 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:58 pm

-soapy- wrote:It'll be expensive because of the number of holes they have to drill - that takes longer, so costs more.
For a production board house.... Holes are drilled at a "I'm going to need a clean pair of pants" pace :p

Laser would be cool... but high tech equipment always cost more, even in China.

Looking to do some punch processing...
Fibreglass PCB is just a handy thing to use.
It's also hard to beat as far as material cost, strength, weight, temperature resilience.... It's really a very appropriate material. There are engineering plastics that would work, but they're very expensive.
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-soapy-
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by -soapy- » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:54 pm

All true, but 5000 holes takes a lot longer than 50! And that factor of 100 increase goes on your bill!

A laser cutter doing straight line cuts in passes like that, at say 6m a minute, could do a big board in a few seconds, then dice it into 20 boards to fit the UP! platform. Far cheaper.

William
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by William » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:59 pm

If you were to do it on a laser cutter, which material would you do it on?

I've been contemplating excuses to purchase a laser cutter for a few months now. I could add this to my pile of convincing arguments.

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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by odiegel » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:03 am

We've got a Universal Laser X-660 (60W) and it doesnt even come remotely close to being able to cut PCB material (presumably because of the glass content?). So if you are looking ot buy one, make sure it has enough power to cut PCB material.
Of course, the nice thing with doing somehting like that on a laser cutter is that cutting it at an angle becomes a piece of cake.
Cheers
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Madox
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by Madox » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:43 am

I was about to do it on Stainless Steel / Aluminium at Ponoko until I saw the price :P

Probably stainless, Aluminium might be a bit too soft and too easy to bend.

PCB material is actually one of the better ideas, glass epoxy composite doesn't plastically deform while having enough flex to pop the model out if required.

trebuchet03
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by trebuchet03 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:06 am

-soapy- wrote:All true, but 5000 holes takes a lot longer than 50! And that factor of 100 increase goes on your bill!

A laser cutter doing straight line cuts in passes like that, at say 6m a minute, could do a big board in a few seconds, then dice it into 20 boards to fit the UP! platform. Far cheaper.
While I agree, increasing the number of holes by a factor of 100 doesn't increase the cost of the bill by a factor of 100 :) We don't need copper, we don't need a mask, we don't need vias, we don't need top coating, we don't need a silkscreen and we don't need to multiply all of those features by 2 for 2 layer boards :)

That's why I'm estimating maybe $2/board for "slow" turn (10 day)... That's about 3x the cost of my product's board which has all of the above features.

I'm probably going to prototype shapes with laser cut materials. Zero lines laser slots might be a problem as you might not be able to clear plastic that oozes down... I had to use a paper clip to clear ABS that got stuck in the perfboard (if it doesn't get stuck, it probably won't hold thee print down).

This is something that has been on the back burner for me... But since there's an interest.... I'll have some prototypes made, they should be ready by the time I get back.

Madox wrote:I was about to do it on Stainless Steel / Aluminium at Ponoko until I saw the price :P
I sent an RFQ to a prototyping/production house in the US to do some sheet metal punching - they've got an awesome turret punch - we can experiment with shapes other than circles too (squares, slots, triangles, etc.). If slots work - that would simplify the design considerably (no worries about bias). There are some design constraints when using a punch process - holes can't be as close to each other without causing problems with flatness (IIRC 2x or 3x the diameter minimum spacing)...

The sheet metal vendor we use in China can do material up to 2mm thick - they can also do hem features (something I think you'll all like - no more double stick, tape, binder clips, etc.).

I'm wary about doing metal production as it could easily be integrated into the standard design - I'd never recuperate tooling fees (there's a reason I didn't pursue having a plastic stock made myself :p)...
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Linkreincarnate
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by Linkreincarnate » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:00 am

Why not drill the existing build platform full of holes?

trebuchet03
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by trebuchet03 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:26 pm

Linkreincarnate wrote:Why not drill the existing build platform full of holes?
I got quotes for that already.... Wayyyyy too costly.

You could do it yourself - but that's a lot of down time and a lot of drill bits (and a $4 piece of perfboard works kludgey fine).
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shanghailoz
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by shanghailoz » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:50 am

Can someone post a pic of what you want, then I can take a look.
Doing PCB stuff here is *dirt* cheap.

China is about to shut down for 2 weeks though, so nothing going to be done for a while.

trebuchet03
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Re: Mission for Trebuchet03 or Anyone in China incl PP3DP

Post by trebuchet03 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:32 pm

I'll try and post some production files in a few days - I hope to finish while on the plane I'm about to board :D

My laptop is having some issues handling all these holes with the patterns I'm doing (intersecting circles and such). I'm using Solidworks to generate an stl, converting to an eagle cad script, cleaning up the script to make holes from "circles" and then importing into eagle.
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