Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled in?

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dmatsumoto
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Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled in?

Post by dmatsumoto » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:01 pm

The first print I did on the UP! was the Mecanum MK2 by Zaggo (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2473). Overall, it printed pretty well, but the notable thing here is that the outer faces aren't getting filled in. I have been playing with different settings in the Print settings:

Surface: 2, 3, 4
Fill: Loose, Hollow (solid is printing right now)
Dense: 3, 4
Space: 6, 8

No matter what I change, the part always basically looks like the image I posted on Thingiverse: http://www.thingiverse.com/derivative:5230. Can anyone recommend settings to try?

odiegel
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by odiegel » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:38 pm

Dear Matsumoto San,
My guess is that the files has all thenormals facing inwards instead of outwards. When I open the file in zPrint (the software that runs our Z-corp machine) all the normals are definitely the wrong way around. If you flip all the normals, I am guessing it should then print fine.
Cheers
Olaf

dmatsumoto
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by dmatsumoto » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:58 pm

Hi Olaf,

Thanks for your reply... I was really close to pulling out all of my hair over this issue. Now the problem is -- how do you change the normals? Is this some weird Blender trick that I'll have to pull off? Or can it be done in Pleasant3D or the UP! software?

Thanks!

odiegel
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by odiegel » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:19 am

Hi Dave,
Just uploaded a version of the left hub, on which I flipped the normals through the Z-print software, at http://www.ciri.org.nz/downloads/uniwhe ... lipped.stl
Give it a try and let me know if it works. If it does, I'll do the right wheel as well.
Cheers
Olaf

dmatsumoto
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by dmatsumoto » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:27 am

Thank you! My printer is at the office, so I will let you know tomorrow. :)

dmatsumoto
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by dmatsumoto » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:29 am

I just opened the file in replicatorg to preview it, and I don't think it'll work... the part is now ultra tiny! :)

EDIT -- I then opened the file in the UP! software and used the scaling feature to convert inches to mm. That seemed to do the trick, as it does look pretty close to the other model. Perhaps the units were exported incorrectly in the STL? No big deal -- I'll just scale and print it tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes.

odiegel
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by odiegel » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:13 am

Yep. That's because we used the civilized units of millimteres down here... :-)
Just scale by 2.54, or use the mm to inch scale conversion in the Up software and you should be back to normal.
cheers
Olaf

odiegel
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by odiegel » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:33 am

Hi Dave,
I just opened the files in the Up software. When I open the original file it shows up in Red, whereas with my default settings, good models normally show up in pink, which to me indicates that the Up Software is telling you the faces are flipped.
When I open the one I converted, it shows in pink as normal. and yes, the sacle is in mm instead of inces so just use the scale option and it should be perfect.
Cheers
Olaf

dmatsumoto
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by dmatsumoto » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:37 pm

odiegel wrote:Hi Dave,
I just opened the files in the Up software. When I open the original file it shows up in Red, whereas with my default settings, good models normally show up in pink, which to me indicates that the Up Software is telling you the faces are flipped.
When I open the one I converted, it shows in pink as normal. and yes, the sacle is in mm instead of inces so just use the scale option and it should be perfect.
Cheers
Olaf
Thank you!!! It totally worked, and my model is printing beautifully now. Would you mind also flipping the other file so I can print that one out as well? Thank you so much!

And thanks for the tip about the red model -- I hadn't even noticed. I should probably post a feature request here and ask PP3DP if they can figure out how to roll normal flipping into a newer version. Do you have any links that will explain why this causes a problem for printers? Is it something I can gather from reading the STL specification?

bripam
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by bripam » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:26 pm

I have had similar issues with .stl files ... the easiest thing to try is checking "unsolid" on the print window.

If the file needs to be repaired, I use netfabb studio basic (free) or the netfabb "cloud service" which is also free.
http://www.netfabb.com/?lang=0

dmatsumoto
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by dmatsumoto » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:50 am

The original problem behind this post has been solved long ago (thanks everyone!), but now I have another question which is basically the same thing. Although the printer definitely looks like it's trying to fill in the outer walls, it's not solid enough. The inner fill never touches the outer plastic perimeter, so the parts end up being a little flimsy. Is there any way to solve this issue?

Madox
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by Madox » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:50 am

There's a workaround, I print on an angle to avoid this problem

My ASCII art skills aren't up to it ;)

Basically experiment and rotate your model 30/45degrees from the horizontal. You'll get more support area but the sides 'might' be filled ;)

Or avoid having a 'flat' top surface.

TeamTeamUSA
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by TeamTeamUSA » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:07 am

Madox wrote:There's a workaround, I print on an angle to avoid this problem

My ASCII art skills aren't up to it ;)

Basically experiment and rotate your model 30/45degrees from the horizontal. You'll get more support area but the sides 'might' be filled ;)

Or avoid having a 'flat' top surface.
In what axis, X or Y?

Go!

=ml=
¡Fabricado no TeamTeamUSA!
movin' \ shakin' \ troublemakin'

Madox
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by Madox » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:22 am

Either, when you angle say a cube, all sides would be an outer wall rather than a top face where this problem occurs. The top face is difficult to fill in.

:( Just run into some printer problems...emailed Shirley, hope she gets back to me soon...

-soapy-
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by -soapy- » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:28 pm

Sorry, I'm not sure what's up? Are you trying to do models that are closed thin shells?

For thin shells, I now print at 0.35 res with the walls set at 0.75mm. You get good bonding, and they are tough and springy, and only two passes thick.

If you set them to, say, 0.75 and a finer .02 print res, you will find they don't really touch each other, and the printer cannot do another pass down the middle to fuse them, as there isn't enough room.

If you are trying to save plastic by printing (say) a cube that you've hollowed out in software, then don't - you are actually using more plastic, as it prints the wall thickness twice, then a raft. Better to print a solid model and set the fill to a lower value, as then it only prints one high density wall rather than an extra one inside your part.

rbrooke
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by rbrooke » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:38 am

Hi,
I am having a similar problem with thin walled parts. Basically my part is a thin walled open, approximately rectangular box. I print it with the opening upwards to minimise support material.
The wall thickness of the box is about 2mm. When I print it I allways get two approx 0.5mm wall shells printed with a gap. If I strip the two shells apart there is some evidence that bonding between the sheels has been attempted, but it is rare and in most cases incomplete. I have tried printing with solid fill setting and different Z resolutions 0.2 to 0.35, different orientation angles, vertical and horizontal. I am about to try Loose Fill to see if I get anything different.
Does anyone have any similar experiences and advice on how to get the wall shells to join up?
Rodney

DeanR
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by DeanR » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:12 pm

Yes, I am having exactly the same problem with getting two thin shell walls instead of one thicker wall as designed. Some forums state to print on an angle but I find I still get the same problem. Even if I select fine, 0.2 , and Solid fill, I still get a shell in a shell which I can peel like an onion. I also have a problem where the top and bottom of an object (ex. Hook) prints thin side walls but no top or bottom. This has to be software related so hope the engineers can resolve these issues on the next update. If anyone has any suggestions to work around these problems in the time being, I would love to hear from you. Thanks Regards Dean

superace
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Re: Anyone having issues with outer faces not getting filled

Post by superace » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:18 pm

I face this problem many times also. As some people suggest printing at an angle is making it better but it really does totally remove the problem. So for models that has this problem and when I can access the not bonded wall I use Loctite super glue. For the moment I use 401 and 416 depending on how thin the walls are. Add some drops, not much at all. This works great for me and gives me much stronger walls specially on models with thin walls only printed in 2 layers.

Maybe not the best way but worth trying.

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