Up mini extruder stepper specifications

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jeeplvr
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Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:26 am

Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:41 am

What is the nema number:
Voltage:
mm\s feed rate of the extruder:
Thanks,
Chris

roller
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by roller » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:49 am

jeeplvr wrote:What is the nema number:
Voltage:
mm\s feed rate of the extruder:
Thanks,
Chris
IT's a little NEMA 14. Voltage with steppers is kinda "it depends" question ... in fact with all electrical motors... anyway ... find a NEMA14 with the highest torque rating you can and it will be fine - the only question might be whether it's a 1.8 degree or 0.9 degree step motor. As for the feed rate in mm/s ... that will be whatever the software tells it to be. That's kinda like asking the speed of a car ... it depends on how hard you are pressing the accelerator.

jeeplvr
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:07 pm

The reason I am asking is that I see that there are many steppers available and many of them do not list the NEMA number but have different part numbers and voltage ratings. 12vdc seems to be a common voltage for the mini for the fans and heater. Some of the steppers are listed as 2 phase, 5 volt, 12-24 volt and so on. Its confusing.

jeeplvr
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:44 am

ok I'm changing print heads. I found one that looks better in every respect. It should fit the standard mag bracket on the mini. For experimental purposes, I found a nema 17 stepper motor with the same dimensions as the nema 14 only it has a longer shaft. It will allow me to mount the gear away from the motor and hopefully help the overheating issue. But I am still changing the entire extruder out for keeps.

D3rax
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by D3rax » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:39 am

Very interesting development. Would be awesome If it works effectively and if it is easy to implement, also for the up plus!

But i'm wondering, would a longer drive shaft make a big difference? As far as I understand does the heat from the motor travel through the shaft into the gear that drives the filament. A lounger distance would lead to more cooling, but will this be enough? Maybe directing a fan on the exposed shaft is senescence?
Up! Plus

caesar
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by caesar » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:12 pm

From my limited knowledge about steppers, I was under the impression that NEMA numbers refer to the phisical dimensions of a stepper motor (square size), the difference between power rating on the same NEMA size being compensated by its length. Higher power = higher torque = longer motor = heavier.

I'm a bit confused about finding a NEMA 17 in the same size as NEMA 14, maybe the specs are wrong?

I think that it should work if the new motor has the same degrees per step and as long as its power rating is at or above that of the UP stepper.
Voltage rating of the stepper is not important as long as current flow is limited. Running 24 or 36V through a 5V 2A stepper and limiting the current should increase the possible acceleration.

Will definitely watch this development very close.

jeeplvr
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:47 am

I compared dimensions again and the nema 17 is longer and has a longer shaft. Otherwise it is dimensionally the same.

jeeplvr
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Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:26 am

Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:50 am

D3rax wrote:Very interesting development. Would be awesome If it works effectively and if it is easy to implement, also for the up plus!

But i'm wondering, would a longer drive shaft make a big difference? As far as I understand does the heat from the motor travel through the shaft into the gear that drives the filament. A lounger distance would lead to more cooling, but will this be enough? Maybe directing a fan on the exposed shaft is senescence?
It will get it away from the motor by quite a bit but the heat transfer will continue. End result is it would buy me more time maybe. Check out my other thread in the "look my mod" forum and look at the cooling mods I am experimenting with. They are quite successful so far.

roller
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by roller » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:59 am

jeeplvr wrote:I compared dimensions again and the nema 17 is longer and has a longer shaft. Otherwise it is dimensionally the same.
NEMA (14, 17 etc) just refer to the dimension of the faceplate of the motor. So if it is the same size an a NEMA 14, it IS a NEMA14 not a NEMA17. From memory the number is the width of the face in tenths of an inch ... so a NEMA14 is 1.4"... something like that anyway.

What is important for a stepper is the holding torque. To little and it's too weak. The voltages, currents, resistances quoted are ways of comparing the power requirements (again trying to keep it simple). In simple terms you want the one with the lowest quote Voltage in this application and ideally an identical current rating (lower and your losing torque, higher and you're overheating your motor) or you will need to tune the current ... and I've never bothered to look at the Up mainboard to see if this is possible (anyone?) though it should be.

jeeplvr
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by jeeplvr » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:45 am

According to this site my mini has a nema17 in it already. http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_motor

roller
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Re: Up mini extruder stepper specifications

Post by roller » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:35 am

jeeplvr wrote:According to this site my mini has a nema17 in it already. http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
Huh, You know what ... you are totally correct - it is a NEMA 17. Someone eons ago said it was a 14 and despite that fact I have about 30 NEMA17s in the house and a stack of 5 right next to the printer I had never bothered to put one up to it to compare. Just subconsciously noticed it looked smaller and had that notion from someone else waaaay back in time.

Now as it is a NEMA17 .. this present a major opportunity. As many have noticed the stepper runs way too hot for PLA. If you can transplant the extruder gear onto a longer stepper it should run a lot cooler as these are intended for higher torque and current. I had never considered this possibility before because I had been running with that misconception the whole time.

Massive facepalm!

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