Uneven Z platform on Mini

Support for UP mini. To report a bug, post with a title [BUG REPORT]. To request a feature, post with a title [FEATURE REQUEST]
roller
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Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:28 am

I haven't heard anyone mention their bed wasn't level with their new Mini. I found my bed was over 1mm out from left to right. It was so far out that a properly adjusted height in the middle of the bed would produce horrible head crashing as the nozzle bounced over the perforated bed on one side yet was so far off the bed there was no chance of filament binding on the other.

Now my supplier was aware of this as a manufacturing defect and had a part he sent me to fix the issue - I shimmed with business cards to fix this enough to actually be able to print the shim but I guess my post is about being disappointed this issue is so well known there is a part to fix it and that now I am stuck with this defect. I hear there may be a software fix (presumably to shift Z while printing to compensate) but this will produce it's own issues.

It's especially disappointing because I was going to take my printer to uni in the hope of convincing them to buy a few (I am the go to guy for RP processes and faaculty/students interested in building/acquiring their own systems). It's a bit embarrassing to, on the one hand, endorse a product and on the other hand have to point out it is so flawed out of the factory it needs a hack to get your first print out.

I love my printer but my confidence in it's quality is seriously dented and had I read about this before I bought mine I would have made the extra investment in the Up Plus instead ... so I am posting here so others can read about the issue before they buy. Do any other new Mini owners on the forum have this issue?

twocycler
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by twocycler » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:55 am

If you read my post at the bottom of page 2 if the Up! Mini thread you will see that I described the same problem with the build platform not being level weeks ago. Regardless, I think my Mini is a fantastic printer for the money.

roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:24 am

Actually I did read that. Mine was much worse with over 1.2mm variation from left to right. I also notice some photos showed the perfboard bowing which I thought could have accounted for your issue. My main point is I was hoping to drag this into uni to do a sales pitch but with the hack in place it doesn't look much more professional than a makergear M2.

I guess I was most disappoint because to date I've had to print this hack, lube the Z rods and adjust the cabling to get a single finished print out of it. Now it's printing I love it, as a builder of a number of 3D printers and CNCs, I'm not fussed but for a noob end user, out of the box experience I think it was a little lacklustre and makes me second guess recommending them to uni.

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wackojacko
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by wackojacko » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:36 pm

The mini you have is number 73 in the world, PP3DP became aware of this issue only a few days ago. We have released the spacer file as a work around and it can be downloaded from our support page. As the UP Plus has had constant improvements throughout its lifetime and now has a v20 motherboard with a whole suite of small improvements, rest assured I am sure the Mini will have updates follow. Thanks for sharing your suggestions and these have been shared PP3DP

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Tiertime-Edward
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by Tiertime-Edward » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:37 am

Hi there,

Sorry for the uneven plarform issue. Our engineers are trying methods to solve it. If any users have the same problem, could you please temporarily put a piece of paper under the perfboard to increase some height in one side? Please refer to the attached photo.

Thank you.
Attachments
adjustment2.jpg
adjustment2.jpg (207.11 KiB) Viewed 17453 times

Blown454
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by Blown454 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:05 am

I was trying to visualize what the problem was, thanks for the photo showing a workaround ;). I thought the mini was enclosed, so if showing off this might be hidden easily, unless of course you point it out. I just recently got the Infinia and I could imagine it might be a bit more noticable on it, I'm guessing they easily get this taken care of in due time. I'd buy one tomorrow still, in fact I have been looking around for stores that have them in stock! :). I just wish it had a larger as opposed to smaller build volume, maybe an Up! Pro sometime soon??! That is the only thing I am not liking so much, have had a couple parts that needed about another 1" volume increase to print... :( Thank goodness for my 'other' printer sitting next to the Up! that could handle it with volume to spare...

roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:19 am

Bruce from 3D printing systems sent me a nice fix. The business card solutions it a little more low key but the printed fix works very nicely whereas the business cards fix (what I initially used) gets annoying especially as the whole platform feels a little delicate. The prints are coming out great and very consistently now although I am still have a few adhesion issues due probably due to the platform still not being perfectly flat. A leveling mechanism would be nice if the manufacturing cant get it flat enough. Also, when perfectly level I have to do the trick with setting the platform height to get the max above 124mm (when the bed perfectly level my head height needs to be over 124)

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wackojacko
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by wackojacko » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:46 am

If you move the table to the Max height then click set nozzle height and say yes then no, you should get an extra mm for every time you do that.

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scubamatt41
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by scubamatt41 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:27 am

Hi UPers,

Yes, aldo the machine printed good objects coming straight out of the box, see my other post "brand new up....." for details, there is a minor. I'am a victime to.

It's the bed being uneven. Putting something between the metal holder and the prefboard doesn't seem to help.
(see picture above for details of the heat bed and its metal holder)
The uneven distance between the prefboard and the nozzle remains when checking all 4 corners.

There is a little block of plastic underneath, in the middle, of the heatbed table. Could it be that whatever you put inbetween to even the level actually gives the same action on the oposite site of the prefboard?
For example: on the X,Ymax (FR) the nozzle is 3sheets of paper above the bed and on the X,Ymin there is a gap of 8sheets.

You would think that adding something like aproxx. 0.25mm on the 3sheets side would do the trick.
In fact I noticed the offset to remain the same as if the prefboard is tensioned over the plastic block in the middle hence also moving further away from the nozzle?

Am I missing something here?

Cheers,
Matt
Always breath out on the way UP

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wackojacko
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by wackojacko » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:12 pm

Have you tried the spacer available on
www.3DPrintingSystems.com/support
Bruce
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Need help with your printer, check out our Youtube channel.
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roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:31 pm

The spacer helps with the lower right side but the unevenness is more complex than that. There is also some variation front to rear.

On the trick to increase the max - I have been fine since you told me that but having to use a workaround out of the box is a pain in the butt and if I didn't have your wisdom handy I would have been stuck with an expensive doorstop (though I probably would have just milled I higher platform to slot in).

It's also very scary that on power loss the Z drops quite harshly to the bottom of the case. I had power drop and the sound was terrible. I am sure the plastic parts cant stand too many of those!

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scubamatt41
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by scubamatt41 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:46 pm

wackojacko wrote:Have you tried the spacer available on
http://www.3DPrintingSystems.com/support
Hi wackojacko,

No I havent yet, thanks for the pointer
Also I came across a manual for the UP mini. I never new there was one. The confirmation email from pp3dp directed me to the manual for the UP plus.

I would like to officially "shame" pp3dp. Luckly the UP mini is somewhat idiot proof

Me bat english write, me :arrow: Dutch :?
Cheers,
Matt
Always breath out on the way UP

madprinter
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by madprinter » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:12 pm

I have had the problem with the PCB board being warped because of the stress from the heated board under it.

The problem:
PCB pad part to which the heated platform is screwed with two screws is too big in the Z axis.

Solution:
Unscrew the heated platform from the PCB pad. Sand off about 1-2mm from the top of the PCB pad, then put the heated platform back and gently put the screws back in, but do not tighten them too much. Leave about 1mm of space between the PCB Pad and the heated platform, just enough so that screws do not extrude from the heated platform (so they don't hit the PCB).


This leaves the PCB free of stress and it is perfectly flat. The only problem remaining is the left-right problem which can be solved by paper or the "Mini platfrom spacer.stl" repair part ( get it from here http://3dprintingsystems.com/support/ )

Somebody please create this part so people don't have to resort to sanding. :)
Attachments
pcbpad.PNG
sand off about 1-2mm from the top of this part
pcbpad.PNG (39.83 KiB) Viewed 17392 times

roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Oh. I don't have that issue - my heated bed is flat its just the metal brackets which hold the top edge of the perf board down are not square to the rest of the printer so naturally hold the perf board in an unflat position relative to the extruder. I saw someone elses photos where there was bowing in the perf board - your problem explains it.

roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:32 pm

Well after about a 1/3 of a roll attempting to print a 100x100 print I have given up doing my architectural models with the Mini (the whole reason I bought it). I spent ages shimming all the sides so they were as close to flat as I could - flatter than my reprap Prusa. Freshly cleaned the perf board set the height at close as I could (one sheet of paper off the surface) and I still cant get past about layer 10 without a corner or two lifting right off. I tried Kapton and blue tape too but the beds not hot enough for them to stick through a whole print. I surrender!

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:01 pm

Use glass covered in Kapton, then pause after first couple of layers and drop MEK on all suspect corners, then resume printing, this has taken care of all my warping issues.
Drew Petitclerc
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Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
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scubamatt41
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by scubamatt41 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:34 pm

Don't give up on the UP mini roller!

Aldo the "Gekko" platform was wrongly advertised by the seller via this community. Check it out on ebay and NO I dont't have strings with the seller.
It seems to work for UPer Lawrence. I'am willing to give the Gekko a go on my machine. Until now I noticed that closing the wind barrier and setting the bed-nozzle distance
really makes the differance. But I don't want to keep doing a criticly set up each and every time hence the Gekko. Again this is what I expect from the thingy.

Cheers,
Matt
Always breath out on the way UP

roller
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by roller » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:05 pm

Actually, off topic to this thread the Mini may be going back due to a serious software shortcoming - any wall below a certain thickness gets ignored by Up! software so scale architectural models (typically 0.5 to 0.2 wide get ignored. Not being printed to scale is fine but not being printed at all is just useless. I hope PP3DP changes this in the future because every architects office I know would love to have one at the price of a Mini.

Drew I need to get my hands on some MEK - seems harder than I expected as no one wants to stock it anymore due to shipping restrictions. I do have a few tricks up my sleeve and might cut down one of the borosilicate sheets off my reprap.

The only concern with Gecko is whether the Mini will get it hot enough to stick. Plain Kapton is all I use for my reprap but the Mini just does get the bed hot enough (I've been wondering why it's locked to the PLA friendly temp of 50C.

Just one question I've been wondering - how do I pause??

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wackojacko
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by wackojacko » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Hi Roller

The UPs have always had a minimum wall thickness of around 0.8mm.

A software update will be coming out that will enable you to calibrate the table height in 5 points, this will be similar to the z calibration.

Pause is in the maintenance screen.

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wackojacko
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Re: Uneven Z platform on Mini

Post by wackojacko » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:02 pm

Pop into your local hobby shop they'll have MEK

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Bruce
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