Bad impression of a solid wall.

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Kilawo
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Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:54 am

Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by Kilawo » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:54 am

Good morning,

I have a problem. My printer is a "3D UP Plus 2".

I have designed the form attached in STL format; It is basically a hollow cube with 2mm thick walls without two of its faces.
When printing, the horizontal face and one vertical are OK. However, the two opposite vertical sides, are printed as a "sandwitch" or book of three very thin sheets, which together are 2 mm thick,when the right would be a "solid" wall of a "single sheet" of 2mm. thick.

Attached is a partial photo of the result.I include: STL file, and the print and setup adjust.

Any idea?

B.R.
Attachments
Problema.jpg
Problema.jpg (198.74 KiB) Viewed 13526 times
Setup.jpg
Setup.jpg (45.85 KiB) Viewed 13526 times
Print.jpg
Print.jpg (44.95 KiB) Viewed 13526 times

caesar
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Location: Romania

Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by caesar » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:02 am

Looks like the slicer (UP software) decided that it can not fill it as requested, with diagonal lines and high infill per your screenshots, which is normal.

You could try selecting full 100% infill and report back.

roller
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by roller » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:54 pm

There is lots of discussion on this throughout the forums ... a search might turn up some useful info. But in summary the individual (inner or outer) wall width will vary with layer height (plenty of explanations of this in the reprap project info). The slicer will then decide if there is enough space in between those walls for infill at the requested percentage using it's standard zigzag in a regular pattern. If the walls are too close it wont infill. If the walls are closer again they will overlap so that you end up with solid fill because the inner and outer wall make contact. So to get stable well filled walls:

- go slightly thinner (for overlap) or thicker walls (for infill) OR
- change the layer height
- change the infill percentage

Unfortunately Up software doesn't offer a true solid/100% fill which would reduce but not eliminate the problem.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:00 pm

Try rotating the model so no vertical wall is at normal to the edges of the build plate, this can improve the infill in most cases.
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

roller
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by roller » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:06 am

Oh yes .. and rotate ... which changes the effective wall thickness as far as the software is concerned as it evaluates thickness only in X Y Z directions. I also forget to suggest that unlike Drew who is always on the ball.

Robin
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by Robin » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:52 pm

I watched mine try to do the zig-zag infill before it did the outer line.

The zig zag had no real underlying zig-zag to stick to.

With nothing to stick to it pulled in to a straight line.

Result 3 straight lines, no zig-zag even though it went through the motions.

Automation
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by Automation » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:09 am

This is a little test piece i made up to test the thresholds of thin walls, wall infill and voids.
http://i.imgur.com/KomaHio.jpg?1
Dims are in millimeters.

amd-tec
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by amd-tec » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:09 pm

Automation wrote:This is a little test piece i made up to test the thresholds of thin walls, wall infill and voids.
http://i.imgur.com/KomaHio.jpg?1
Dims are in millimeters.
Nice test, what was the layer thickness for these results?
Have you tried to print it out when part is rotated by z-axis?
Would you share the part for testing?

Thanks,

amd-tec
"3D design with intelligent printing"
http://www.amd-tec.com

roller
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by roller » Thu May 01, 2014 4:42 am

Automation wrote:This is a little test piece i made up to test the thresholds of thin walls, wall infill and voids.
http://i.imgur.com/KomaHio.jpg?1
Dims are in millimeters.
Excellent but as minimum sizes are also relate to layer height you need one of these for each layer height. If you look back, way back, I think I posted a set of similar for each layer height. There is also some variance between software versions ... not every version but some of the very old versions seem to relate a little different so I think there are tweaks volume extruded/layer height which have in turn been compensated for in minimum acceptable wall width - though I could be wrong on this latter issue as I have not empirically tested it.

R-A
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by R-A » Sat May 03, 2014 9:00 am

DrewPetitclerc wrote:Try rotating the model so no vertical wall is at normal to the edges of the build plate, this can improve the infill in most cases.
What do you do if there's not enough room on the buildplate to rotate the object? How do you solve this problem then?

roller
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by roller » Tue May 06, 2014 8:14 am

R-A wrote:
DrewPetitclerc wrote:Try rotating the model so no vertical wall is at normal to the edges of the build plate, this can improve the infill in most cases.
What do you do if there's not enough room on the buildplate to rotate the object? How do you solve this problem then?
Try both the min and max layer heights - this will change the wall thicknesses which may be enough to either merge your walls or get some useful infill. Otherwise you will need to edit the thickness of the walls. That's about it if you can't fit the print in another orientation.

ming
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by ming » Tue May 06, 2014 2:01 pm

R-A wrote:
DrewPetitclerc wrote:Try rotating the model so no vertical wall is at normal to the edges of the build plate, this can improve the infill in most cases.
What do you do if there's not enough room on the buildplate to rotate the object? How do you solve this problem then?
If you are designing the part and using a designer software (solidworks or like) add a small draft to the wall - good plastic engneering practice.

Or you can try this trick
when complete designing - rotate your part on an axis (body rotation) of a known angle plus a very small insignificant amount XX- then only create your STL file
Import the STL into the 3d printer software and realign the part (without the small angle XX) and print.
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

roller
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by roller » Thu May 08, 2014 8:14 am

Or you can try this trick
when complete designing - rotate your part on an axis (body rotation) of a known angle plus a very small insignificant amount XX- then only create your STL file
Import the STL into the 3d printer software and realign the part (without the small angle XX) and print.
Can you explain that a little more clearly?

ming
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Location: Georgia USA

Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by ming » Sat May 10, 2014 12:39 pm

roller wrote:
Or you can try this trick
when complete designing - rotate your part on an axis (body rotation) of a known angle plus a very small insignificant amount XX- then only create your STL file
Import the STL into the 3d printer software and realign the part (without the small angle XX) and print.
Can you explain that a little more clearly?
OBJECTIVE: try to rotate the part a very small amt so the XY axis has a delta from point to point.
Background: the UP SW cannot rotate part less than 5 deg

1. draw part
2. rotate part (10.1)degree in designer pivot on an axis perpendicular to the base
3. create STL
4. Import STL in UP sw
5. rotate part 10.0 to align to edge if it needs to be fitted (large object )
6. print

using 0.1 as an example. in my design software i can control the STL resolution. if i know i have parallel wall i normally extrude draft anyways
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Sat May 10, 2014 10:42 pm

ming wrote:
Background: the UP SW cannot rotate part less than 5 deg
You are wrong about how many degrees and distances or scales you can enter into the command box for rotation, scaling and translation, like most non-inquisitive users you thought that the per-entered numbers was all the choice you have, why don't try typing in a smaller value for rotation or translation, do you have a phobia about trying new things or working outside the norms?
:lol:
Regards
Drew
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

ming
Posts: 194
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Location: Georgia USA

Re: Bad impression of a solid wall.

Post by ming » Sun May 11, 2014 3:00 am

DrewPetitclerc wrote:
ming wrote:
Background: the UP SW cannot rotate part less than 5 deg
You are wrong about how many degrees and distances or scales you can enter into the command box for rotation, scaling and translation, like most non-inquisitive users you thought that the per-entered numbers was all the choice you have, why don't try typing in a smaller value for rotation or translation, do you have a phobia about trying new things or working outside the norms?
:lol:
Regards
Drew
Thanks for the free education :D I was not wrong just not as familiar with the SW as pointed out.
Im glad i can be of assistance to the original post (and expose your intelligence).
Phobia yes I have many but you may not want to know what they are. Again thanks for sharing and your contribution.
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

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