Look what I found

Anything related to 3D Printing...
User avatar
scubamatt41
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:47 am
Location: The Netherlands

Look what I found

Post by scubamatt41 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:24 pm

Hello All,

When I first started looking at 3d printers I also came across the Ultimaker. They named the first type they made the Ultimaker Original. But now they have the Ultimaker 2, check this out ( if you haven't already ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JJSI9Ou4EY The maker of this video shows at 2:06 minutes into the film very interresting functions for example: retraction time, heat of the extruder, heat of bed and more. All can be manipulated.
Seems like the first hobby printer with some extra for the more experienced 3d printer user/operator/thinkerer :)

Cheers, Matt
Last edited by scubamatt41 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Always breath out on the way UP

User avatar
woofy
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm

Re: Look what I found

Post by woofy » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:59 pm

Nice isn't it.
I ordered a UM2 a week ago after seeing it at the TCT , and should have delivery 1st week November if all goes well.
UP plus, Ultimaker2 & Raise N2+ Printers.

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:08 pm

Yes, the live parameter display is a nice feature. I saw the UM2 at MakerFaire but didn't stick around long enough to see that.

We're rapidly entering the next generation of 3D printers: bigger build volumes, better mechanicals, lots of experience from the first generation being incorporated into the new designs. pp3dp needs to keep up and is hopefully cooking up a larger model, although to break through to a larger audience they really need to make more parameters accessible to advanced users, or at least provide more profiles for the various new materials becoming available. If they want to, I'm sure they can do so while retaining the simplicity of the current software, but they have to abandon their fixation with selling their own filament. I don't want to give up the Up's ease of use or its fantastic support generation/removal, but I do want to be able to print with all these cool new filaments, and I want to be able to print bigger things. I've currently got $4,200 worth of printers on order from other manufacturers - pp3dp could have had most or all of that money if they had suitable products.

User avatar
scubamatt41
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:47 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Look what I found

Post by scubamatt41 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:06 pm

woofy wrote:Nice isn't it.
I ordered a UM2 a week ago after seeing it at the TCT , and should have delivery 1st week November if all goes well.
Yes it looks very nice but there is a but, actualy two.
1 the filament diameter of 2.85mm
2 only PLA :?:
Always breath out on the way UP

User avatar
woofy
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm

Re: Look what I found

Post by woofy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:15 pm

The UM2 is suitable for abs or pla, and I'd guess most printable filaments. The Cura software give control of extrusion rate and print speed as well as temperature. As for 2.85mm filament, this is just normal 3mm filament available everywhere.
UP plus, Ultimaker2 & Raise N2+ Printers.

User avatar
scubamatt41
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:47 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Look what I found

Post by scubamatt41 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:33 pm

Yes woofy I found more info about pla AND abs. Could not find it on their website :?
If 2.85 is also know as 3mm why don't they just say that? ( retorical )

So would it be able to accept 1.75mm?
Always breath out on the way UP

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:36 pm

scubamatt41 wrote: So would it be able to accept 1.75mm?
No, not without a different extruder I think. The world seems to be moving to 1.75mm for precision in extrusion, except for huge printers like Gigabot where spool changes would become a nuisance. The UM2 is not so big that this will be an issue, I think 3mm is a bit of a questionable design decision.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by roller » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:09 am

We all started moving to 1.75mm because it was supposed to be better. In reality it made little difference and in many cases 3mm remained more reliable. It's doesn't break as easily, doesn't get tangled or locked up on the spool and doesn't strip out at easily. So the end result of whether 3 > 1.75 >3 form a design point of view is 3mm still works out cheaper (but these days only fractionally) and otherwise it's much the same. I have one 3mm extruder in the house for troubleshooting ... otherwise I've switched across to 1.75 solely for uniformity across my printers.

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:49 am

Theoretically every mm of 3mm diameter filament extruded is twice the volume of the same length of 1.75mm filament, so it's more difficult to precisely control and therefore more demanding of extruder gearing precision and/or stepper step size. In practice it may not matter, I don't know...

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by roller » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:15 am

Well, I should have listed some of the counterpoints to even up the point (I think I left it sounding a little 3mm biased). It takes more force as well as less movement to feed the same volume using 3mm so gearing becomes essential on both counts. Done right this doesn't make too much difference except a bigger and heavier extruder which in itself can limit speed and acceleration.

The 3mm is also a little more resistant to buckling though so it is more resistant to issues we have with the Up and PLA ... of course since you would almost certainly be using a geared extruder you avoid that issue completely anyway (unless you are getting a lot of heat coming up through the hotend)

I think one of the key reasons Ultimaker sticks to 3mm is the fact it uses a Bowden type design to push the filament to the flying head and the 3mm has less, simpler and more consistent hysteresis in the tube. For those not familiar, a Bowden design uses only the hotend mounted on the flying head and the extruder is fixed in position and mount elsewhere - the filament is pushed along a tube to the hotend.

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:21 am

roller wrote:I think one of the key reasons Ultimaker sticks to 3mm is the fact it uses a Bowden type design to push the filament to the flying head and the 3mm has less, simpler and more consistent hysteresis in the tube. For those not familiar, a Bowden design uses only the hotend mounted on the flying head and the extruder is fixed in position and mount elsewhere - the filament is pushed along a tube to the hotend.
That makes perfect sense, thanks. And you are certainly not going to be pushing Ninjaflex through a Bowden tube - probably not Flex EcoPLA either.

User avatar
wilsonj
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by wilsonj » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:45 am

JuliaDee wrote:
roller wrote:I think one of the key reasons Ultimaker sticks to 3mm is the fact it uses a Bowden type design to push the filament to the flying head and the 3mm has less, simpler and more consistent hysteresis in the tube. For those not familiar, a Bowden design uses only the hotend mounted on the flying head and the extruder is fixed in position and mount elsewhere - the filament is pushed along a tube to the hotend.
That makes perfect sense, thanks. And you are certainly not going to be pushing Ninjaflex through a Bowden tube - probably not Flex EcoPLA either.

I did manage to push soft PLA through the bowden setup on my tall delta. Longer tube than on the Ultimakers too. But I did have to print at 15mm/s to get it to work. This was using 1.75mm btw. Given what I have seen of the NinjaFlex that would be pushing it (pun intended) too far.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:18 am

Colofabb soft PLA is almost as rigid as ABS coming off the spool. NinjaFlex is like well-cooked spaghetti. Totally different. Form Futura Flex Eco is in between (al dente?), and hard enough that I haven't had any feed problems with it at all, but I'm still not sure it'd work in a Bowden setup.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by roller » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:24 pm

wilsonj wrote:
JuliaDee wrote:
roller wrote:I think one of the key reasons Ultimaker sticks to 3mm is the fact it uses a Bowden type design to push the filament to the flying head and the 3mm has less, simpler and more consistent hysteresis in the tube. For those not familiar, a Bowden design uses only the hotend mounted on the flying head and the extruder is fixed in position and mount elsewhere - the filament is pushed along a tube to the hotend.
That makes perfect sense, thanks. And you are certainly not going to be pushing Ninjaflex through a Bowden tube - probably not Flex EcoPLA either.

I did manage to push soft PLA through the bowden setup on my tall delta. Longer tube than on the Ultimakers too. But I did have to print at 15mm/s to get it to work. This was using 1.75mm btw. Given what I have seen of the NinjaFlex that would be pushing it (pun intended) too far.
They will work with Bowden ... just the retract gets really unpredictable.

User avatar
scubamatt41
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:47 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Look what I found

Post by scubamatt41 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:11 pm

If the UM2 has a bowden type setup, the adjustable retraction time setting in the UM2 is just what we need.
Always breath out on the way UP

User avatar
wilsonj
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by wilsonj » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:56 pm

JuliaDee wrote:Colofabb soft PLA is almost as rigid as ABS coming off the spool. NinjaFlex is like well-cooked spaghetti. Totally different. Form Futura Flex Eco is in between (al dente?), and hard enough that I haven't had any feed problems with it at all, but I'm still not sure it'd work in a Bowden setup.
Hi Julia, I do mean soft PLA, not ColorFabb's slightly confusing name of "soft touch" PLA. I printed with the same black soft PLA you used in the comparison. Sorry should have been clearer.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

User avatar
JuliaDee
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Look what I found

Post by JuliaDee » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:02 pm

wilsonj wrote:
JuliaDee wrote:Colofabb soft PLA is almost as rigid as ABS coming off the spool. NinjaFlex is like well-cooked spaghetti. Totally different. Form Futura Flex Eco is in between (al dente?), and hard enough that I haven't had any feed problems with it at all, but I'm still not sure it'd work in a Bowden setup.
Hi Julia, I do mean soft PLA, not ColorFabb's slightly confusing name of "soft touch" PLA. I printed with the same black soft PLA you used in the comparison. Sorry should have been clearer.
Ah, that would be Form Futura "Flex EcoPLA". I know, it's confusing, right?

julia

User avatar
wilsonj
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by wilsonj » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:56 am

JuliaDee wrote:
wilsonj wrote:
JuliaDee wrote:Colofabb soft PLA is almost as rigid as ABS coming off the spool. NinjaFlex is like well-cooked spaghetti. Totally different. Form Futura Flex Eco is in between (al dente?), and hard enough that I haven't had any feed problems with it at all, but I'm still not sure it'd work in a Bowden setup.
Hi Julia, I do mean soft PLA, not ColorFabb's slightly confusing name of "soft touch" PLA. I printed with the same black soft PLA you used in the comparison. Sorry should have been clearer.
Ah, that would be Form Futura "Flex EcoPLA". I know, it's confusing, right?

julia
Sure is. That's why I dropped the word "soft" from the ColorFabb description on my site.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by roller » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:54 am

Oh that's good you dropped the soft. I also found it confusing also. I got what I expected from you but had to keep checking I was getting a hard rather than soft PLA. Silly naming by Colorfabb

User avatar
wilsonj
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Look what I found

Post by wilsonj » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:42 am

roller wrote:Oh that's good you dropped the soft. I also found it confusing also. I got what I expected from you but had to keep checking I was getting a hard rather than soft PLA. Silly naming by Colorfabb
Yes, totally agree!
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

Post Reply