How is the print quality?

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hajime
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How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:13 am

Hi, I received two print samples from a dealer. What do you think of the quality? Is this considered to be acceptable, good or excellent? Please note that at the bottom of the large opening, the edges are bit smooth. The bottom of the screw in the middle panel does not seem to be smooth neither.
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JuliaDee
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:45 pm

hajime wrote:Hi, I received two print samples from a dealer. What do you think of the quality? Is this considered to be acceptable, good or excellent? Please note that at the bottom of the large opening, the edges are bit smooth. The bottom of the screw in the middle panel does not seem to be smooth neither.
Those look like pretty good and typical prints to me. The smoothness will vary depending on type of filament (I think this is not OEM filament) and the bottom finish depends on the type of platform you use (raft or no raft).

julia

hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:36 pm

Thanks julia. A company sent the samples to me. They claimed that they were made using the CubeX. I noticed that there are gaps in a region. What caused those gaps? Could they be fixed?
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JuliaDee
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:13 am

hajime wrote:What caused those gaps?
Poor printer design?

:)

hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:28 pm

So, if printed using the UP! Plus, there won't be gaps? I am drawn between the Up! Plus and the CubeX Trio. So far, I have heard many good things about the UP! Plus. However, the print volumn is quite small. It might fit my current needs but in a few months, when I design something bigger, it won't be able to handle it. Again, reliability is important. It has happened several times that after I left the Makerbot Replicator 2 printed by itself for hours, I found the build area a mess and the models were half made even the printer said otherwise (non-extruding problem).

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JuliaDee
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:27 pm

hajime wrote:So, if printed using the UP! Plus, there won't be gaps? I am drawn between the Up! Plus and the CubeX Trio. So far, I have heard many good things about the UP! Plus. However, the print volumn is quite small. It might fit my current needs but in a few months, when I design something bigger, it won't be able to handle it. Again, reliability is important. It has happened several times that after I left the Makerbot Replicator 2 printed by itself for hours, I found the build area a mess and the models were half made even the printer said otherwise (non-extruding problem).
There are so many variables (part shape, printer setup, filament characteristics, software settings, operator experience, etc.) it is impossible to say "Your prints will always be perfect". All I can say is that I've used my Up! heavily for a year now, and it has performed wonderfully, once I got past the initial learning and tweaking phase. Is every single part 100% free of imperfections? No. Are virtually all the parts usable for my purposes (mostly engineering parts)? Yes. Rarely has the build volume been a serious problem for me. I would like a larger build volume to expand my capabilities, but to be honest the Up! has been big enough for everything I've really needed to do.

Feed issues are common with almost all printers. I used to have lots of them. Now I have virtually none, thanks to a combination of the Petitclerc feed mechanism, a piece of "filament-wiping" foam in the feed path, quality filament, and experience.

julia

hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:33 pm

I have noticed that the sample is not smooth. As you see in the photo, regions B and C seem to be of different color as region A. Do you know the cause? Do you have such issue wiith the UP! Plus?
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pleppik
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by pleppik » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 pm

hajime wrote:I have noticed that the sample is not smooth. As you see in the photo, regions B and C seem to be of different color as region A. Do you know the cause? Do you have such issue wiith the UP! Plus?
Color variations are most likely because of the filament, not the printer.

I think, though, if minor color variations and small gaps are going to cause a problem for you, then it's likely no hobby-level 3D printer will be acceptable. This technology is still fairly imperfect, and even the best of us regularly have small defects in the models we print. You may be better off going to a service bureau like Shapeways.

hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:27 am

pleppik wrote:
hajime wrote:I have noticed that the sample is not smooth. As you see in the photo, regions B and C seem to be of different color as region A. Do you know the cause? Do you have such issue wiith the UP! Plus?
Color variations are most likely because of the filament, not the printer.

I think, though, if minor color variations and small gaps are going to cause a problem for you, then it's likely no hobby-level 3D printer will be acceptable. This technology is still fairly imperfect, and even the best of us regularly have small defects in the models we print. You may be better off going to a service bureau like Shapeways.
Good point. Do you mean the IP! Plus could also have these issues?

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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by pleppik » Sat May 04, 2013 8:19 pm

hajime wrote:Good point. Do you mean the IP! Plus could also have these issues?
I think any hobby-level 3D printer is likely to have surface imperfections, and any hobby-level filament is likely to show minor color variations. Up, Makerbot, Cube, etc., are all going to produce somewhat imperfect results. The technology is just not there yet at this price level.

roller
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by roller » Sun May 05, 2013 2:46 am

Firstly, the failed parts of the print are the results of poor settings for the specific print/model. This could be improved by lowering the layer height in this example, printing slower, printing with a lower temp, more cooling (looks like PLA) or re-orienting the model. On an Up! these settings are better optimised and you don't have to find your own ideal settings so this happens a lot less often BUT if it does happen there is less you can do to fix the settings as we can really only re-orient, print with different layer height or marginally slower. The Up! also prints slower generally as it prints with "safe" settings that produce better outcomes more of the time. So I suspect you would get these issues a lot less with an Up! so long as you printed with the genuine filament. You may have slightly less success with aftermarket ABS and will have even less reliability if you need to print with PLA (without significant modification - Look at Drew's posts for examples of mods).

The colour variations are due to the filament which looks to be a PLA and is slightly translucent. You will find colour variation in most translucent prints as you see the density changes in the print and trapped air. Solid colours would generally have significantly less variation if any at all. There is little than can be done about such colour variation in all FFM prints Except for painting them after printing.

hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Sun May 05, 2013 11:31 am

roller wrote:So I suspect you would get these issues a lot less with an Up! so long as you printed with the genuine filament. You may have slightly less success with aftermarket ABS and will have even less reliability if you need to print with PLA (without significant modification - Look at Drew's posts for examples of mods).

The colour variations are due to the filament which looks to be a PLA and is slightly translucent. You will find colour variation in most translucent prints as you see the density changes in the print and trapped air. Solid colours would generally have significantly less variation if any at all. There is little than can be done about such colour variation in all FFM prints Except for painting them after printing.
What about printing using nylon?

roller
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by roller » Sun May 05, 2013 12:47 pm

You will get the best result with Up! genuine filament as this is what the settings were designed for and as we cannot tweak them, the result may be less than optimum. That being said, what I have seen so far from other users who've tried nylon has been quite positive. Do a search through the forums on nylon, 618 and 645 and you will pick up most of the discussion. I think Julia who commented earlier has reported on it, I know wilsonj has posted some photos of his prints which looked quite good. Perhaps someone is willing to post some more samples. I've only printed nylon through my reprap so far as I don't like to mix plastics in my nozzles and I don't have spare for my Up! yet.

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JuliaDee
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by JuliaDee » Mon May 06, 2013 2:21 pm

roller wrote:I've only printed nylon through my reprap so far as I don't like to mix plastics in my nozzles and I don't have spare for my Up! yet.
FWIW I've gone back and forth between nylon and ABS numerous times using the same nozzle with no clogs or other issues. I've had major nozzle nightmares with PLA vs ABS and PC vs anything, though.

julia

roller
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by roller » Tue May 07, 2013 5:40 am

FWIW I've gone back and forth between nylon and ABS numerous times using the same nozzle with no clogs or other issues. I've had major nozzle nightmares with PLA vs ABS and PC vs anything, though.
Yeah, it's more a general rule I follow because I hate cleaning nozzles and PLA-ABS issues. Since then I just use a nozzle for each different media. So far my Up! has only printed ABS as my repraps do all the work with the other plastics. There's no advantage limiting myself to the restrictions of the Up! when I am not using ABS.

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Lawrence
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by Lawrence » Tue May 07, 2013 6:51 am

Hi Roller
So far my Up! has only printed ABS as my repraps do all the work with the other plastics.
I now do similar to you.
In my Up!Plus I only use the genuine Up! filament.
For ABS and now nylon also, I am using my Makerbot clone. I am now printing with either ABS or nylon through the 0.4mm nozzle at 0.1mm layers at 220 degrees extruder and 100 degree printbed settings.. The nozzle on my clone is calibrated just less than 0.1mm from the printbed, and the results at that resolution are very impressive. I have tried to print at both 0.05mm and 0.08mm layers but the nozzle needs to be closer. I will be attempting that over the next couple of days. At 0.1mm the layers are not visible. When using 60X magnification the layers are visible on ABS, but on nylon the structure is more crystallized - seeming to provide stronger bonding. Next step is to reduce to a 0.3mm extruder nozzle.
It shows that you don't need to outlay a lot of had earned cash to own a printer that does very fine printing.
Once I have eclosed in the print enclosure, added controlled heating to the enclosure, and sourced a very very flat print bed surface that enables a 0.05mm gap between the extruder nozzle and the printbed, I think I will have a good printer.
Up! needs to keep up with the market. If I can print at 0.1mm on my clone, then I reckon they can do the same on an Up!
And the the success I am having I won't be rushing to buy a Cubex or a Makerbot Replicator 2X.
But, I would like to see an Up!Mega with 0.1mm layers and adjustable heat settings.
Regards
Lawrence

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Tue May 07, 2013 4:51 pm

I have run ABS, PLA, Nylon, Polycarbonate and Wood filaments through my single nozzle "Up Plus Pro" with out any clog issues for nearly a year now.

My process is immediately after a build with anything other than ABS and I'm going to shut down for the night I run about a 6 inch strand of ABS (any color will do) through the extruder, flushing out the other material and setting the extruder temp back to 260c (yes I have nearly full control of my nozzle temp).
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hajime
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by hajime » Wed May 08, 2013 4:18 am

DrewPetitclerc wrote:I have run ABS, PLA, Nylon, Polycarbonate and Wood filaments through my single nozzle "Up Plus Pro" with out any clog issues for nearly a year now.
What is the different between an "UP Plus Pro" and an "UP! Plus"?

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JuliaDee
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Re: How is the print quality?

Post by JuliaDee » Wed May 08, 2013 4:24 am

hajime wrote:
DrewPetitclerc wrote:I have run ABS, PLA, Nylon, Polycarbonate and Wood filaments through my single nozzle "Up Plus Pro" with out any clog issues for nearly a year now.
What is the different between an "UP Plus Pro" and an "UP! Plus"?
http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=753

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