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Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:22 am
by rsilvers
Wow, look at how incompetent this review site is:

http://3d-printers.toptenreviews.com/cubex-review.html

They give the CubeX 9.5 out of 10, don't subtract point because media costs 9x more, it is not heated, and the software is too basic for advanced users, take off a bunch of points for the Afinia H not having a "safety enclosure," and give the MakerGear 95 out of 100 for print quality, but still rate it just 6.8 out of 10 - complaining that you have to pay extra for the power supply.

They championed how the Printrbot Plus has a print speed of 200 mm/sec. I don't like saying LOL, but LOL. Anyone can claim any print speed but it does not mean the quality is good at that speed. They listed the Solidoodle print speed at 3mm/sec - not sure why.

I would say that site is giving some pretty bad advice. Their slogan "We do the research so you don't have to" does not appear to be a good idea.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:51 am
by markloane
rsilvers wrote:Wow, look at how incompetent this review site is:

http://3d-printers.toptenreviews.com/cubex-review.html
Your not kidding, they clearly did not use the printer at all, "this translates into about 20 minutes to print a full-sized basketball" utter crap more like 20 hours.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:15 am
by hajime
rsilvers wrote:Wow, look at how incompetent this review site is:

http://3d-printers.toptenreviews.com/cubex-review.html

They give the CubeX 9.5 out of 10, don't subtract point because media costs 9x more, it is not heated, and the software is too basic for advanced users, take off a bunch of points for the Afinia H not having a "safety enclosure," and give the MakerGear 95 out of 100 for print quality, but still rate it just 6.8 out of 10 - complaining that you have to pay extra for the power supply.

They championed how the Printrbot Plus has a print speed of 200 mm/sec. I don't like saying LOL, but LOL. Anyone can claim any print speed but it does not mean the quality is good at that speed. They listed the Solidoodle print speed at 3mm/sec - not sure why.

I would say that site is giving some pretty bad advice. Their slogan "We do the research so you don't have to" does not appear to be a good idea.
I was going to order the CubeX Trio after reading that article and hearing that the printer got some kind of awards. Thanks some of you for warning me about that printer.

markloane: Have you had a chance to test the latest version of the software?

So, at the moment, we do not know of any good quality, reliable printer that is larger than the UP! Plus?

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:25 am
by markloane
hajime,

yes the software has improved currently printing a 2 colour shoe...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgfe7eo23glgqn7/SHOE.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ym0x4k7kcd5uc ... .07.44.jpg

a 15 hour print and it's going well.

If you need to be able to print large objects the Cubex is the only game in town and the quality can be very good (on large prints), with some effort.

3D systems are a large company and will keep improving the software, and I don't think there is anything wrong with the Cubex basic hardware.

Mark

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:27 am
by Lawrence
Hi
There are plenty of large format printer that have a better print quality than the Up!Plus, that is, is you have deep pockets. It would be easy to spend many tens of thousands of dollars on a 3D printer - if you have a use for it and can justify that amount of money. Last year I posted a comparision (http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2034) I made between a printed sample made on a Mojo (AUS$12,000 plus to purchase, and with filament several times what Up! supplies) I received. The print quality of the Mojo and my Up!Plus were similar - and that was before Up! did the 0.15mm layer upgrade.
I regularly print useable M5, M4, and once even M3 nuts and bolts, and have down sized ball bearing assemblies to have a 10mm inner then made it in a single print. The nuts and bolts screw together smoothly and are strong enough to bolt together frames for my projects that use the ball bearing to freely turn rotors - lubricated with a drop of sewing machine oil. It doesn't get much better than that.
For me, it is not only how big I can make useable models, but also how small I can make useable models. The up is a champion at that.
Ask the Cubex people to make a working 10mm diameter ball bearing or an M3 or M4 nut and bolt. That for me is the real test of the accuracy of the printer. If the Cubex can do that then it may be worth considering.
Just my own opinion
Regards
Lawrence.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:47 am
by hajime
Lawrence wrote:Hi
There are plenty of large format printer that have a better print quality than the Up!Plus, that is, is you have deep pockets. It would be easy to spend many tens of thousands of dollars on a 3D printer - if you have a use for it and can justify that amount of money. Last year I posted a comparision (http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2034) I made between a printed sample made on a Mojo (AUS$12,000 plus to purchase, and with filament several times what Up! supplies) I received. The print quality of the Mojo and my Up!Plus were similar - and that was before Up! did the 0.15mm layer upgrade.
I regularly print useable M5, M4, and once even M3 nuts and bolts, and have down sized ball bearing assemblies to have a 10mm inner then made it in a single print. The nuts and bolts screw together smoothly and are strong enough to bolt together frames for my projects that use the ball bearing to freely turn rotors - lubricated with a drop of sewing machine oil. It doesn't get much better than that.
For me, it is not only how big I can make useable models, but also how small I can make useable models. The up is a champion at that.
Ask the Cubex people to make a working 10mm diameter ball bearing or an M3 or M4 nut and bolt. That for me is the real test of the accuracy of the printer. If the Cubex can do that then it may be worth considering.
Just my own opinion
Regards
Lawrence.
Have you tried the latest version of the software that Mark mentioned? Does the CubeX still have problems?

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:26 am
by Lawrence
Hi hajime
I have not tried the Cubex software. The only software I have used is Up! software and ReplicatorG (for my Replicator clone from Flashforge).
While Cubify restrict users to using only their filament at what appears to be highly inflated prices, I will not consider their products.
I do use only the genuine Up! filament in my Up! - because I have found it to be excellent quality filament - but know that I am not forced to use their filament.
Regards
Lawrence

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:57 am
by hajime
It seems that some printers look good on paper but unless one tries them out, there is no way of telling if the printers are as good as their manufacturers claim. For example CubeX looks good but the software clashes. Given the difficulty to ask for a refund in my city, I can't try them out and see how it goes. Sounds like I just go for the UP!Plus and hope that when I need to build larger models, they will release a larger version of the printer.

When people say that the printer produces good print quality, do they use the stock build platform or the Platform Build sold separately?

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:40 am
by Lawrence
Hi hajime
I always use a Gekko sheet. See: http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 960#p16254

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:53 am
by rsilvers
Julia,

I didn't see your post that you ordered one until now. Neat. This would be an easier wait for me if I had something else in the meantime. They will call you before it ships and ask if you want any options. I plan to upgrade the computer from an X1 to an X3 so it can handle more steppers and have them install a dual extruder so that I can use the second head to either print support and infill with a larger nozzle for more speed or to print dissolvable support. Only $150 for both of those. Actually they designed it to accept four heads back to back! But more heads adds mass to the moving parts and so that keeps me from trying to get four of them from the start Also software to do color printing is not even close to mature yet. They will also have side panels that should make ABS distort less. And they have a $75 LCD controller which allows it to run without another computer. I may never use that, but will get it anyway.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:32 pm
by JuliaDee
rsilvers wrote:Julia,

I didn't see your post that you ordered one until now. Neat. This would be an easier wait for me if I had something else in the meantime. They will call you before it ships and ask if you want any options. I plan to upgrade the computer from an X1 to an X3 so it can handle more steppers and have them install a dual extruder so that I can use the second head to either print support and infill with a larger nozzle for more speed or to print dissolvable support. Only $150 for both of those. Actually they designed it to accept four heads back to back! But more heads adds mass to the moving parts and so that keeps me from trying to get four of them from the start Also software to do color printing is not even close to mature yet. They will also have side panels that should make ABS distort less. And they have a $75 LCD controller which allows it to run without another computer. I may never use that, but will get it anyway.
Thanks, I'm looking forward to it! $150 for those upgrades sounds very reasonable. I also ordered a copy of Creator to use with the printer:

http://www.simplify3d.com/creator/

julia

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:00 pm
by rsilvers
I think Creator has a good future. There is a need for a professionally-maintained and supported program.

Do you plan to use it for creating models, or for printing models that you already created?

What do you model in now?

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:09 pm
by JuliaDee
rsilvers wrote:I think Creator has a good future. There is a need for a professionally-maintained and supported program.

Do you plan to use it for creating models, or for printing models that you already created?

What do you model in now?
I don't see Creator as a CAD program - it's a slicer/mesh tweaker/printer controller with a nice UI and some amazing features, like the ability to specify different layer heights at different places on a model.

For design I've used Tinkercad to this point and absolutely love it. It's as elegant and intuitive as a program can be, nice to look at, cross-platform (web-based), fast and responsive. Next to zero learning curve yet powerful enough that I can do real product development work with it. Unfortunately the service is being discontinued at the end of this year so I'm currently shopping for an alternative. Fusion 360 (cross-platform, quasi-web-based) is a possibility. Geomagic also looks interesting but there is no Mac version at this time. I'm dreading the loss of Tinkercad - everything that tries to be as easy is pathetically lame, clunky, and ugly, and anything more powerful seems inevitably bloated and user-hostile. With Tink the software never gets in the way of the creative process, the stuff just flows onto the screen without my having to think about how to work the program.

julia

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:24 pm
by rsilvers
I would look into the personal version of this:

http://www.geomagic.com/en/products-lan ... agicdesign

It is $199 full retail or $69 for the student version.

I have not tried it, but it seems to be a parametric modeller like Solidworks, but for less money.

Their pro version is $1200 or $2400, depending on the features - which is still less than 1/2 the price of Solidworks.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:26 pm
by rsilvers
Free trial:

http://www.alibre.com/testdrive/

I just noticed that it is not for the Mac. That is too bad. I run Solidworks in VMware Fusion on my Mac and it works well.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:29 pm
by rsilvers

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:37 pm
by JuliaDee
rsilvers wrote:I would look into the personal version of this:

http://www.geomagic.com/en/products-lan ... agicdesign

It is $199 full retail or $69 for the student version.

I have not tried it, but it seems to be a parametric modeller like Solidworks, but for less money.

Their pro version is $1200 or $2400, depending on the features - which is still less than 1/2 the price of Solidworks.
Geomagic is a candidate (hobby or pro edition), but for me it would mean either having to get a Windows laptop, or doing CAD only at the office. The 2-install limit is a bit of a drag as well on the expensive versions.

julia

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:39 pm
by JuliaDee
Yes, I'm looking at the Fusion line. I think the initial Inventor Fusion free trial is over and that everything is being migrated to Fusion 360. I'm signed up for the Fusion 360 beta program but haven't had time to check it out yet. Cross-platform (quasi-web-based) which is nice in theory.

julia

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:41 pm
by rsilvers
While a native program is best, you can run them on your Mac with:

http://www.amazon.com/VMware-Inc-FUS5-E ... vmware+mac

or

http://www.amazon.com/Parallels-Desktop ... ellels+mac

Note that they don't come with Windows, which needs to be installed.

Re: UP! Plus or CubeX Trio

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:32 pm
by JuliaDee
rsilvers wrote:While a native program is best, you can run them on your Mac with:

http://www.amazon.com/VMware-Inc-FUS5-E ... vmware+mac

or

http://www.amazon.com/Parallels-Desktop ... ellels+mac

Note that they don't come with Windows, which needs to be installed.
Thanks. I've been a Parallels user since it first came out. Once it's up and running, Windows 7 is quite fast under Parallels, but a) launching or shutting down Parallels is an agonizingly slow process, and b) the Mac OS becomes very slow while Parallels is running.

Never tried VM Fusion; the general consensus on which of the two is better seems to swing back and forth regularly. I use Parallels when I absolutely have to, like doing PCB layout or embedded controller compilation while away from the office.

julia