A few issues

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Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Tue May 06, 2014 5:38 am

well since no one posts to Aus.. ive had to do it myself.. bought a few 3.3 ohm and a few 12 ohm resistors.. wish me luck as I test tonight.. 12 reels of filament to get through!

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Last edited by Chris botha on Tue May 06, 2014 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: A few issues

Post by roller » Tue May 06, 2014 8:03 am

Plenty of us are in Aus so if you are looking for local supplies you need only ask. If your near Bris I'm happy to come take a look at you printer. Your quality issues look more like mechanical issues to me. If you want a thumbwheel temp mod (9 x 10C steps) I can supply one - I think I still have 2 or 3 sitting in my spares box.

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Tue May 06, 2014 11:19 am

I will PM you mate.. I hooked up a 12 ohm.. guessing 230c? too cold.. edges curled up.. but slightly better than running at PLA temp.. got 6.6ohm in there now and testing.. so far seems to be going ok, very slight curling off the table... ill post results. PM your number and I can call you tomorrow to haggle for a thumbwheel control. I am in Sydney but travel to BrisVegas on business often, im due there on Thursday actually..

(edit) ok so results in.. printing at 12 ohm colder and printing at 6 ohm colder. the prints are indistinguishable from the original ones, the same surface rippling everywhere.. its notable that the rippling ONLY occurs where ever the software has added supports on the dice.. whereever there is no support the surfaces are clean! whatever the hell that means.. maybe i need to go backwards a software version? Im on v3.07?

ming
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 am
Location: Georgia USA

Re: A few issues

Post by ming » Tue May 06, 2014 1:52 pm

I think you are confusing ROM with SW versions.

I would recommend print with UP ABS and get a baseline print to make sure the machine is fine before you go to the"Deepend"

You can do a lot of mods and start chasing for solutions with no improvements if your base machine is not stable or well. Just my 2cents.
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Tue May 06, 2014 10:04 pm

ming wrote:I think you are confusing ROM with SW versions.
Model: UP Plus 2 (H)
Version 2.11
Rom 6.090
Firmware 3.07

I will have to buy some OEM ABS to prove my case, as machine is still under warranty.... pity about that exhorbitant price just to do a baseline..

but honestly im not holding out hope... the issue here is not temperature or material I suspect.. at 20 degrees colder and 40 degrees colder the prints look EXACLTY the same.. at PLA temp the part starts to unbond, no cohesion between layers, in all cases the 6.6ohm and 12ohm and PLA temp the part curls up off the table. Only full temp remains bonded to the table, admittedly at lower temp 12ohm the support material came off much more easily.. but under the support material the surfaces on ALL the parts remains equally crappy..

from left to right:

Full Temp - 12ohm - 6.6ohm

Top surface in all is the number 2, and to date the only surface that are usefull in all my prints are the ones that face "UP".. In all cases the number one was bottom surface.. and extremely difficult to clean. All given a quick wipe with acetone to remove the white marks so you can see the surface clearly.

Can I ask nicely if someone with a unmodified PLUS2 please print this in oem material and post the result, as it appears only people who have heavily modified these units with support braces and table support and temp controllers are getting nice results? I would like to see what it should look like from a native machine.. Im starting to think my expectations were just too high? I would have thought all the surfaces should look like the surface on number 2.

model here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:319868

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and finally, the kicker for me.. notice how the very bottom and very top of this cube are actually quite flat and even.. then examine corners int he middle section whre rethere is support material.. it all goes for a ball of poop.. this print was done on 0.15 "fine" 6 ohm. its edge curled up off the table making the back end of the dice slightly warped and its support material was the WORST in all cases to remove.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GAFM ... 220043.jpg
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mb20music
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 am
Location: USA

Re: A few issues

Post by mb20music » Wed May 07, 2014 1:41 am

Printed on an UP! Plus with the UP! filament. Rotated the dice in the UP! software so that the 1 is on the bottom as opposed to the 6. Much easier to remove the support material on the bottom this way...
.20 layer height, in "normal" mode

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Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Wed May 07, 2014 2:24 am

mb20music wrote:Rotated the dice in the UP! software so that the 1 is on the bottom as opposed to the 6. Much easier to remove the support material on the bottom this way...
Yes thats how ive done mine too.. original one was 6 down, all rest were rotated though.. i learn fast.. (i never updated stl in thingiverse though.)
mb20music wrote:.20 layer height, in "normal" mode

Cool thanks. Its hard to see whats going on with the white surface, but it sure looks better than mine!

True test will be tonight.. i got some oem filament, my backside is still bleeding... been a while since I had to grab my ankles for a consumable....

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mb20music
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 am
Location: USA

Re: A few issues

Post by mb20music » Wed May 07, 2014 2:53 am

I know the picture is poor, I will see if I can get a better picture. But it did turn out pretty decent.

I mostly use non-oem filament from various sellers on eBay because of the price, and really the quality is just as good as the oem. I have the original temperature mod from octave for around 20 bucks.It is just a two-position switch, oem and non-oem. They don't have that switch on their website anymore, just have the multi-position switches now.

I did get very lucky last week and scored a brand new roll of oem UP! filament (red) on eBay for $16.95 shipped.
Last edited by mb20music on Wed May 07, 2014 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Wed May 07, 2014 2:58 am

mb20music wrote:I know the picture is poor, I will see if I can get a better picture. But it did turn out pretty decent.
Awesome, thank you for taking the time to help, i owe you a beer!


oh. BTW.. I showed the shop in SYD the images from this thread, and the technician in the shop felt these last lower temp prints i did, were about what was to be expected from this unit.. which they sell..
they also sell after market ABS and can mod my unit for $250 to run it.. voiding my warranty which they hold.. wierd..

anyway..

My expectations may be high as we utilise an Envisiontech Perfactory and some Solidscapes, as well DWS.. and while i never expected a 2K toy to be at that level, I think I was expecting far too much..

This from our Aureus unit at work, protoyping a working master which is castable, prints teeny thread that actually works.. the solidscapes are ok.. but not nearly a lick on the Aureus.. the DWS is fast.. but has poor edge rounding and huge overhang issue.. not disimaler to what I am seeing in the prints above..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUkbfR457E8

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ming
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 am
Location: Georgia USA

Re: A few issues

Post by ming » Wed May 07, 2014 3:05 am

Yes the OEM ABS material cost more - I will try to avoid using it if i can get a good temp setting for the filament i want to use. But look on the brights side if you had to print 3-4 times to get one correct with other brand ABS, then you have wasted time and material - which cost more than 1-2 times on the OEM material and reduced stress and frustration.

I am new to the printer as well. So far i have only used the OEM white. with glass and perf board as base. and still learning as i go. If i suspect it will warp i dont hesitate and use the perf board. I have tried successfuly to add supports on the part as part of my STL file and cut it off later.

And if your machine is bad you are still covered
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

mb20music
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 am
Location: USA

Re: A few issues

Post by mb20music » Wed May 07, 2014 3:16 am

I actually use the lower temperature position for both oem and non-oem filaments. For me it prints great and doesn't leave any nasty burn marks like it does when printing at the higher UP! temperature.

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Wed May 07, 2014 10:44 am

My first positive motion.. the UP filament did print better.. but oddly "fuzzy/rippely" like its not quite defined? however all the woddbly bubble bits are gone.. so a definite step forward.. and it was still a bastard to get the base support off of the ONE face, leaving it quite badly scratched.... :?

I took some advice and printed this ABS with vent door closed, will opening the door ease the pain of getting that support off easier?

In your collective opinions, is this about as good as its going to get? If so I can live with this and handover to the kids to play with.. if you think it can improve I will keep chasing it down a bit more, but the manhours spent on this now could have paid for another one...

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D3rax
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: A few issues

Post by D3rax » Wed May 07, 2014 11:50 am

Hmmm if you printed with OEM fillament I would say you should be able to get better results. Also support removal should be easy. Opening the wind barrier makes support removal easyer, but is should not be necessary when you use OEM fillament. I open it when I use 3e party fillament and it helps for better removal.

When I look at your print, what I can see from you pictures, your results look a lot like when I print with Taulman 618 Nylon. Your surface looks very ruff and "bubbly". This happens to me when I print nylon, and this is caused by moist in the nylon (nylon is very sensitive for this). ABS does suck op moist also. I don't know what your environmental conditions are but if you live in a very moist environment it might be that your filament has sucked up to much moist. It just a thought....

I also think your part looks very shiny and glossy, not a look you would expect from ABS?

Ow and the thing about printing with heavy modified machines. You need a modified machine when you print PLA because the stepper motor gets to hot. You also need a temperature mod to print exotic filaments and some ABS. I print without a modified machine and can print OEM ABS, thrid party ABS and taulman 618 (although i get bad results due to moist). PLA I have tried but was a pain in the @*(*%.
Up! Plus

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Wed May 07, 2014 6:50 pm

D3rax wrote:Hmmm if you printed with OEM fillament I would say you should be able to get better results. Also support removal should be easy. Opening the wind barrier makes support removal easyer, but is should not be necessary when you use OEM fillament. I open it when I use 3e party fillament and it helps for better removal.

When I look at your print, what I can see from you pictures, your results look a lot like when I print with Taulman 618 Nylon. Your surface looks very ruff and "bubbly". This happens to me when I print nylon, and this is caused by moist in the nylon (nylon is very sensitive for this). ABS does suck op moist also. I don't know what your environmental conditions are but if you live in a very moist environment it might be that your filament has sucked up to much moist. It just a thought....

I also think your part looks very shiny and glossy, not a look you would expect from ABS?

Ow and the thing about printing with heavy modified machines. You need a modified machine when you print PLA because the stepper motor gets to hot. You also need a temperature mod to print exotic filaments and some ABS. I print without a modified machine and can print OEM ABS, thrid party ABS and taulman 618 (although i get bad results due to moist). PLA I have tried but was a pain in the @*(*%.
I will try with door open next. i cleaned nozzle and checked gear drive last night, so both those ok.

the ABS is fresh out of its foil last night, this print within minutes of opening....

I printed Bangle again, much better, but stuff bad on any surfaces that face down.. might be why the printer is called "up" ? :roll:
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full size image here
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BIZa ... 045218.jpg

ming
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 am
Location: Georgia USA

Re: A few issues

Post by ming » Thu May 08, 2014 2:48 am

from your post compared to the initial post i feel you have gained some confidence with your printer

Though you had spent some time to figure out why your print is not as good but thats not because of the machine its because of in experience with these 3d printers. I would consider that learning curve. Though there are many great suggestions you still will need to try it out and make the mistakes yourself to get it honed in. Every machine is not the same (you already know that)

Best wishes
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Thu May 08, 2014 6:59 am

ming wrote:from your post compared to the initial post i feel you have gained some confidence with your printer
the correct material really helped.. what threw me off track was seller had so much of the wrong material, 12 rolls FFS.. and seemed to be printing ok with it..
ming wrote:Though you had spent some time to figure out why your print is not as good but thats not because of the machine its because of in experience with these 3d printers. I would consider that learning curve. Though there are many great suggestions you still will need to try it out and make the mistakes yourself to get it honed in. Every machine is not the same (you already know that)
I bought a Roland MDX-15 one time... because a bunch of folks I knew bought them and they all swore it was great.. with a little work... and patience and understanding.. they were hopelessly deluded, sort of like people who buy Apple products.. and once they are invested they defend it to death.. because otherwise they will look silly..

After workng to bolster its frame, and actually spending as much as its purchase price again in aftermarket 4th axis addons etc.. I had spent as much money as buying a proper mill and was still only getting "ok" results..

I was very lucky and manufacturer in the US had seen me overhaul a piece of junk and produce half decent parts with it on a forum similar to this.. he sent me a proper 4 axis mill GRATIS as long as I advertised his machine, and the very first piece I cut on it I was almost in tears.. partly absolutely how beautifully it had come up.. and partly for how much time and energy and money I had wasted on trying to get more out of something that was just never designed to deliver it.. the beginnings of that story here

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index. ... 446.0.html

I learned a hard lesson.. don't over invest when its clearly not going to pay off. I am happy to let this be now, its performing within 80% of my expectations.. and I only paid 75% of its selling price.. so....

A forum member here is sending me a temp controller and some links to ABS that works, and once that is honed in, this purchase will dim into history for me, the kids will take over, learn CAD and leave my CNC to me for my hobbies. Long term they will bore of it and it will probably join my big box of collectables.. which this year alone collected an xbox360+kinect, a Leap motion Controller, a Wii, two Mach3 compatible 4 axis controller boxes, 8X400step stepper motors and dream of building my own 5 axis mill... thast a very big very expensive box of goodies.. this UP very narrowly missed being tossed in it too.

the thing about getting older is you have less time.. and more to do..

ming
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 am
Location: Georgia USA

Re: A few issues

Post by ming » Thu May 08, 2014 12:27 pm

What I learned from getting older is less patience. :D
What I learned from making mistakes on the 3d printer is priceless

What I learn on the side of writing emails from a forum person here is more than priceless I now spend more time reminding myself what I should not do and what are the main goals when I do want to start it and 1/2 the time I stop before I start knowing my expectations will not be fully met.
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

Chris botha
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 7:30 am

Re: A few issues

Post by Chris botha » Thu May 08, 2014 10:27 pm

Having accepted its a very low resolution printer with some serious stabilty issues, I accept those issues and work around them.

resolution economics, if you cant make it print twice as good.. make the part twice as big and then the resolution is half as bad. simple really.

Did this last night, boys are in love, this part has them energised to get back into CAD and the little machine is now paying its way.

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and this last picture is how you look while paying for OEM filament.. ready to take it up the choo choo..
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ming
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 am
Location: Georgia USA

Re: A few issues

Post by ming » Fri May 09, 2014 1:31 am

nice

just a thing to check and maintain since the machine is not new and not knowing how it was cared before
1. tighten the single bolt that holds the print head to the bracket
2. tighten/check The 2 bolts under the heat platform
3. If you are local i would send you a wave washer to place in the middle of the 3 levelling screws to give a stronger levelling platform instead of the 3 small springs
4. lightly lube all the slides
Dream@night / Holdit@sameday

mb20music
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 am
Location: USA

Re: A few issues

Post by mb20music » Fri May 09, 2014 3:12 am

Chris, here is something that your boys might enjoy...
The blue truck is scaled up to 1.5, it is pretty big.
I used the truck_chassis file and rotated it so that it is not on its side, also rotated the tires so that they are laying flat.
It takes quite a bit of force to get the tires on the axles, make sure you push straight on so you don't break an axle - It would help a lot if you make the outer part of the axless a bit smaller with a dremel tool( if you have one). I also put a few drops of 3-in-1 oil on the axles first.
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http://www.thingiverse.com/make:73885

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