octave nylon filament

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teamcarlisle
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octave nylon filament

Post by teamcarlisle » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:39 pm

Octave is now selling that tauman nylon filament and says its compatible with the afinia/up. I was wondering if anyone has used it in there Up! Yet and what if any mods or changes would be needed to print with it. Also if anyone has any experience with how different the plastic is and what advantages/disadvantages is has over ABS

roller
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by roller » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:47 am


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JuliaDee
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by JuliaDee » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 pm

I'd originally posted this in the "other" nylon thread (haha) but I just noticed that that one is under Support/Mini, so I think it's better placed here since I have an Up, and it's not a support issue.

I got my 618 from Octave yesterday and printed a few parts. I used the temp-lowering switch dingus that Octave sells and also their Garolite plate. I first tried on perfboard but the raft was a mess, I think maybe from the platform heat - the thick Garolite insulates a bit for a cooler bed.

I had to use a lower-than-usual initial platform height - about 0.5mm clearance - in order to prevent feed stepper jamming on the first layer. Bed adhesion to the Garolite is excellent, and the prints scrape off easily with the putty knife. As Taulman claims, there is zero odor or offgassing. There are little puffs of smoke, but that's actually just steam.

The prints are beautiful, and very strong. The 7/8"-20 male threads in the photo were printed and are fully functional and strong; the female ones were tapped. I used normal speed, 150 micron layer thickness, and opened the fan duct after the first couple of raft layers. I used a 4-layer skin, which I think helps with the threads.

There is a bit of stringing and a few spitballs, probably from the steam popping. Support removal is almost as easy as with ABS.

Taulman 618 is a Game Changer. No longer will I have to put up with the SLS guys sneering at my ABS parts :D

julia
nylon parts.jpg
nylon parts.jpg (88.06 KiB) Viewed 18265 times

amd-tec
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by amd-tec » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:38 pm

JuliaDee wrote:I'd originally posted this in the "other" nylon thread (haha) but I just noticed that that one is under Support/Mini, so I think it's better placed here since I have an Up, and it's not a support issue.

I got my 618 from Octave yesterday and printed a few parts. I used the temp-lowering switch dingus that Octave sells and also their Garolite plate. I first tried on perfboard but the raft was a mess, I think maybe from the platform heat - the thick Garolite insulates a bit for a cooler bed.

I had to use a lower-than-usual initial platform height - about 0.5mm clearance - in order to prevent feed stepper jamming on the first layer. Bed adhesion to the Garolite is excellent, and the prints scrape off easily with the putty knife. As Taulman claims, there is zero odor or offgassing. There are little puffs of smoke, but that's actually just steam.

The prints are beautiful, and very strong. The 7/8"-20 male threads in the photo were printed and are fully functional and strong; the female ones were tapped. I used normal speed, 150 micron layer thickness, and opened the fan duct after the first couple of raft layers. I used a 4-layer skin, which I think helps with the threads.

There is a bit of stringing and a few spitballs, probably from the steam popping. Support removal is almost as easy as with ABS.

Taulman 618 is a Game Changer. No longer will I have to put up with the SLS guys sneering at my ABS parts :D

julia
nylon parts.jpg
Any difference between fine and normal mode?
I have had some troubles to remove supports, dont have temp-lowering switch yet. Just ordered it.
Anyway, I have allways printed Nylon with 0.15 mm layer and fine mode.

I agree, the material is strong, but need more learning to print than ABS.
I deepfreezed nylon parts for easier support remove, and it actually helped .).
"3D design with intelligent printing"
http://www.amd-tec.com

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JuliaDee
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by JuliaDee » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:39 pm

amd-tec wrote: Any difference between fine and normal mode?
I have had some troubles to remove supports, dont have temp-lowering switch yet. Just ordered it.
Anyway, I have allways printed Nylon with 0.15 mm layer and fine mode.

I agree, the material is strong, but need more learning to print than ABS.
I deepfreezed nylon parts for easier support remove, and it actually helped .).
I haven't tried Fine mode with the nylon yet, but the quality in Normal mode is pretty good. I've actually pretty much abandoned Fine mode for ABS. With previous versions of the Up software it worked well for me, but ever since v1.18 I seem to get a lot more "stray noodles" when using Fine than I do with Normal or Fast, and any print quality improvement has been minimal.

julia

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wilsonj
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by wilsonj » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:47 pm

JuliaDee wrote:I'd originally posted this in the "other" nylon thread (haha) but I just noticed that that one is under Support/Mini, so I think it's better placed here since I have an Up, and it's not a support issue.

I got my 618 from Octave yesterday and printed a few parts. I used the temp-lowering switch dingus that Octave sells and also their Garolite plate. I first tried on perfboard but the raft was a mess, I think maybe from the platform heat - the thick Garolite insulates a bit for a cooler bed.

I had to use a lower-than-usual initial platform height - about 0.5mm clearance - in order to prevent feed stepper jamming on the first layer. Bed adhesion to the Garolite is excellent, and the prints scrape off easily with the putty knife. As Taulman claims, there is zero odor or offgassing. There are little puffs of smoke, but that's actually just steam.

The prints are beautiful, and very strong. The 7/8"-20 male threads in the photo were printed and are fully functional and strong; the female ones were tapped. I used normal speed, 150 micron layer thickness, and opened the fan duct after the first couple of raft layers. I used a 4-layer skin, which I think helps with the threads.

There is a bit of stringing and a few spitballs, probably from the steam popping. Support removal is almost as easy as with ABS.

Taulman 618 is a Game Changer. No longer will I have to put up with the SLS guys sneering at my ABS parts :D

julia
nylon parts.jpg
Thats awsome Julia!

I agree, nylon is a game changer as we can now print functional parts, not just pretty ones.

The advantage I found in using fine mode was a stronger part. But I'd love someone to confirm this.... I print at standard temps btw.

Regards
Jamie
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Garry
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by Garry » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:15 am

JuliaDee wrote:Taulman 618 is a Game Changer.

julia
Nice Picture of the parts!

Indeed. This is incredible. A few short weeks ago I get my UP! and discover the awesome work it can do and now it can print nylon parts. This is too good. I've wanted stronger parts since learning about the limitations of additive printing, and now it is here. Wow.

P.S. I'm going to grab a lamp from IKEA like you posted on Thingiverse. It's perfect and I was looking for a good flexible work light like that and never even thought of IKEA even though I've seen them many times. Thanks for that good advice.

teamcarlisle
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by teamcarlisle » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:00 am

Thanks for the info guys :) So I've watched a few videos of people showing how the nylon doesnt break when flexed, but the videos dont really give a good feel for how much pressure the people where applying to bend the stuff, so compared to ABS whats the stiffness/hardness like for the Nylon?

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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by JuliaDee » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:33 pm

teamcarlisle wrote:Thanks for the info guys :) So I've watched a few videos of people showing how the nylon doesnt break when flexed, but the videos dont really give a good feel for how much pressure the people where applying to bend the stuff, so compared to ABS whats the stiffness/hardness like for the Nylon?
The part on the left in my photo has three locking tabs around its upper rim. They act like "leaf springs" and they flex about 1mm or so when the part is inserted and locked into a mating cast metal part. Compared with injection-molded ABS, the pressure required to deflect the springs is not very different, possibly even greater than ABS. With ABS, however, stress marks are visible after just a few insertion/removal cycles, even with the injection-molded samples; nylon's flexibility is much better suited to "living hinge" applications like this.

julia

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wilsonj
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by wilsonj » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:05 pm

teamcarlisle wrote:Thanks for the info guys :) So I've watched a few videos of people showing how the nylon doesnt break when flexed, but the videos dont really give a good feel for how much pressure the people where applying to bend the stuff, so compared to ABS whats the stiffness/hardness like for the Nylon?
ABS is much "stiffer" than nylon, but nylon if printed at the correct temperature simply won't delaminate. If you have a nylon cutting kitchen board take a look at that. You will see it has some flex, but is also very strong.

As Julia mentioned, its great for things like live hinging.

Here is a fun example that won't work with ABS or PLA as it just breaks after a couple bends.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:40025
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Jamie
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LonV
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by LonV » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:18 pm

Does the platform need to be heated for Nylon (assuming I were using a different printer)?

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wilsonj
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by wilsonj » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:01 pm

LonV wrote:Does the platform need to be heated for Nylon (assuming I were using a different printer)?
No.
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teamcarlisle
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by teamcarlisle » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:52 pm

One last question, does Nylon weigh more or less than ABS. Since its being sold on 1 lb spools instead of 1kg spools. Even though the price is almost the same for the weight if you calculate it out, just curious if nylon is lighter and if there might be more physical filament on the spool than if it was 1 lb of ABS? Its not a big issue, I'm in the process of ordering my first spool now. If nobody has actually checked that out I will comeback with my findings in a week or two :)

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wilsonj
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by wilsonj » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:21 am

Nylon is lighter than both ABS and PLA. By how much I'm not sure.

So that makes it even better value!
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JuliaDee
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:07 am

It doesn't feel to me that the weight difference between nylon and ABS is very substantial.

I've had some problems with the clamshell "spool" that the 618 comes on. You can punch a hole in it and add a hub and/or axle, but what happens (to me, anyway) is that the force required to turn the spool past the zigzags of the clamshell slot is sometimes greater than the force required to tighten the filament on the spool. The result is that the spool sometimes doesn't turn, and the filament just pulls itself tighter and tighter on the spool until it eventually jams. I wish they'd just put the stuff on ordinary spools - I'm going to have to find a helper and re-wind this stuff onto a regular spool.

julia

DytHlt
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by DytHlt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:28 am

JuliaDee wrote:It doesn't feel to me that the weight difference between nylon and ABS is very substantial.

I've had some problems with the clamshell "spool" that the 618 comes on. You can punch a hole in it and add a hub and/or axle, but what happens (to me, anyway) is that the force required to turn the spool past the zigzags of the clamshell slot is sometimes greater than the force required to tighten the filament on the spool. The result is that the spool sometimes doesn't turn, and the filament just pulls itself tighter and tighter on the spool until it eventually jams. I wish they'd just put the stuff on ordinary spools - I'm going to have to find a helper and re-wind this stuff onto a regular spool.

julia
They actually started putting 1.75mm filament on normal spools. As for your problem though, I had the same issue. Easy fix was just to take a pair of scissors and cut the zig zag part off.

D3rax
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by D3rax » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:14 pm

I made a holder for the new taulman spool. Works with the octave spool adapter.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:55942
Up! Plus

teamcarlisle
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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by teamcarlisle » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:13 am

I recieved mine today, I like the feel of the nylon, I'm using the Octave temp switch and the Garolite plate with the Up! in ABS mode. Does anyone else have problems with the Garolite plate? It seems like every other print starts lifting away from the plate during printing. Ive tried calibrating the bed height so that the nylon is mashed into it on the first layer, and tried lowering the height until the nozzle was almost too far away for the first layer, none seemed to adhere well for long prints. I've read in a few places that this plate is supposed to work "almost too well" and the nylon should be sticking to it very well. I have the opposite problem. I'm hoping one of you guys ran into this and figured out a solution, so that I dont print through too much of the spool trying to figure it out :)

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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by JuliaDee » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:45 pm

teamcarlisle wrote:I recieved mine today, I like the feel of the nylon, I'm using the Octave temp switch and the Garolite plate with the Up! in ABS mode. Does anyone else have problems with the Garolite plate? It seems like every other print starts lifting away from the plate during printing. Ive tried calibrating the bed height so that the nylon is mashed into it on the first layer, and tried lowering the height until the nozzle was almost too far away for the first layer, none seemed to adhere well for long prints. I've read in a few places that this plate is supposed to work "almost too well" and the nylon should be sticking to it very well. I have the opposite problem. I'm hoping one of you guys ran into this and figured out a solution, so that I dont print through too much of the spool trying to figure it out :)
The Garolite has worked well for me. I've done at least 20 prints now and only one ever lifted. When that happened I re-levelled the platform and it hasn't happened again. I also gave it an acetone wipe to remove any oils. I print with raft, never raftless. I'm not printing large flat objects right now, though - most have fairly small footprints, and I keep them near the center of the bed to minimize level issues. Initial nozzle distance is a bit more than what I would use for ABS on perfboard, otherwise the feed stepper can't push it.

julia

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Re: octave nylon filament

Post by mr6k » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:53 pm

i was advised that garolite is what older electronic pcb material was made of, the stuff that looks a bit green and has a fine weave pattern o it, i have always known it as fibreglass based pcb material. anyway i tried it with nylon and i initially found that while it was better than kapton etc, which just did not stick, even this material did not work very well. even if cleaned with mek. however i then rubbed it down with some wet and dry to roughen its surface, then wiped with mek and now nylon sticks pretty well. so if you have some old pcb material, as i described, try it. the other advantage is that the front face is copper, well attached to the fibreglass so it conducts the heat well from the platform

i stick the pcb down at the edges with kapton tape.

cheers

peter

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