Accessories for Up Plus 2

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hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:33 am

Hello,

Anybody find the following products useful for building nice looking model with reduced curling problem?
In each group, which one do you recommend?

Extruder Nozzle 8 Setting Temperature Switch for Afinia and Up! 3D Printers
Extruder Nozzle Multi Setting Temperature Switch for Afinia and Up! 3D Printers
Extruder Nozzle Temperature Switch for Afinia and UP! 3D Printers
[ Is 8 setting overkill? I use ABS and possibly Nylon and others. I don't like PLA. ]

Octave 3D Quad Enclosure for Afinia and UP! 3D Printers
Octave 3D Printer Enclosure

Garolite LE 3D Printer Plate
Borosillicate glass platform for Afinia and UP! 3D Printers
[ If I use Nylon, will there be a problem if I use the perforated buildplate that came with the Up Plus 2? Will it be difficult to remove the model and the remainings]

Thank you.




http://www.octave.com/3D-Printers-&-Acc ... index.html

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:21 am

I have 9 settings on my temp switch - it's good to have that. I think Octave chose poor settings for the temps (they are just being lazy) and it's handy to have one that goes all the way down to 190C.

Their enclosures seem overpriced and seem to keep the heat in around the electronics which I would not recommend.

I have stopped using glass and any other fancy surfaces since learning to use perfboard properly. I wouldn't buy these until you find you can't print certain things.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:28 am

roller wrote:I have 9 settings on my temp switch - it's good to have that. I think Octave chose poor settings for the temps (they are just being lazy) and it's handy to have one that goes all the way down to 190C.

Their enclosures seem overpriced and seem to keep the heat in around the electronics which I would not recommend.

I have stopped using glass and any other fancy surfaces since learning to use perfboard properly. I wouldn't buy these until you find you can't print certain things.
The largest number is 8. How come you have nine? Why it is handy to have 190C?

So, basically, the accessories are no use?

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:44 pm

hajime wrote:
roller wrote:I have 9 settings on my temp switch - it's good to have that. I think Octave chose poor settings for the temps (they are just being lazy) and it's handy to have one that goes all the way down to 190C.

Their enclosures seem overpriced and seem to keep the heat in around the electronics which I would not recommend.

I have stopped using glass and any other fancy surfaces since learning to use perfboard properly. I wouldn't buy these until you find you can't print certain things.
The largest number is 8. How come you have nine? Why it is handy to have 190C?

So, basically, the accessories are no use?
The largest number on the Octave unit is 8 ... I make my own and actually threw away the one I made like the Octave one months ago (before Octave even released theirs) because it's annoying to use. Mine actually has 10 settings but one is original temp - I wasn't sure how Octave set up their temps so I didn't count 0 degree variation as a setting. You will see some of the very nice setups of some users own temp mods here http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... tep+rotary

Image

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by pleppik » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:03 pm

hajime wrote:Hello,

Anybody find the following products useful for building nice looking model with reduced curling problem?
In each group, which one do you recommend?
I think that, as a rule, you should wait to buy any mods or accessories until you find a specific problem you need to solve. The out-of-the-box printer does a great job for many things, and the items you list are going to be mostly useful for people trying to stretch the limits of the machine.

That said…if you are going to print in materials other than ABS, you will probably need a temperature mod to get the best possible results. You can do it without the temperature switch, but the results won't be as good. On the other hand, expect to spend some time experimenting and fussing in order to get other materials to work.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:27 pm

That said…if you are going to print in materials other than ABS, you will probably need a temperature mod to get the best possible results. You can do it without the temperature switch, but the results won't be as good. On the other hand, expect to spend some time experimenting and fussing in order to get other materials to work.
You definitely want a temperature mod to print non genuine ABS though. Your statement seems to suggest you only need it for non ABS materials.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:09 pm

Thanks. If I don't make my own temperature mod, which commercially available one do you recommend? Safety is also a factor. The only materials I can think of using are: the original ABS, Nylon from Octave and perhaps also Colorfabb.

roller
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:22 pm

hajime wrote:Thanks. If I don't make my own temperature mod, which commercially available one do you recommend? Safety is also a factor. The only materials I can think of using are: the original ABS, Nylon from Octave and perhaps also Colorfabb.
There is a digital one which I think is too expensive and the Octave ones. I think the Octave one with multiple (8 temps) is the best choice if you want a commercial one.

incipienta
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:24 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by incipienta » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:11 pm

I have stopped using glass and any other fancy surfaces since learning to use perfboard properly
Not to interject or anything, but I'd be interested in what you mean by using perfboard properly as I'm always looking to improve performance.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:19 pm

roller wrote:
hajime wrote:Thanks. If I don't make my own temperature mod, which commercially available one do you recommend? Safety is also a factor. The only materials I can think of using are: the original ABS, Nylon from Octave and perhaps also Colorfabb.
There is a digital one which I think is too expensive and the Octave ones. I think the Octave one with multiple (8 temps) is the best choice if you want a commercial one.
Thanks. I worry that if I don't use it properly, it may cause fire. Do I have to worry about this?

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by pleppik » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:04 pm

roller wrote:
That said…if you are going to print in materials other than ABS, you will probably need a temperature mod to get the best possible results. You can do it without the temperature switch, but the results won't be as good. On the other hand, expect to spend some time experimenting and fussing in order to get other materials to work.
You definitely want a temperature mod to print non genuine ABS though. Your statement seems to suggest you only need it for non ABS materials.
I've been printing with third-party ABS from a variety of sources for nearly two years without a temperature switch. I'm sure you get better results with the mod than I get without, but what I get is good enough for me.

So I guess "need" is a relative term.

It's also worth noting that Afinia's "value line" filament is the same stuff that a lot of el-cheapo filament vendors are selling, and they are selling it specifically for what is effectively a stock Up.

roller
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:44 pm

I need removable support as good as you get with genuine ABS - the temp mod gives me this so I think it's essential. If I didn't want removable support (or hard to remove support) I print on a reprap which is about 6 times faster, a lot faster and has more than twice the print area. Without the temp mod I cannot use non genuine as support removal even with the greatest care damages prints.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:22 am

roller wrote:I need removable support as good as you get with genuine ABS - the temp mod gives me this so I think it's essential. If I didn't want removable support (or hard to remove support) I print on a reprap which is about 6 times faster, a lot faster and has more than twice the print area. Without the temp mod I cannot use non genuine as support removal even with the greatest care damages prints.
What does a temperature control mod has to do with removal support? The higher the temperature the easier to remove the support?

Does the Octive temperature control mod changes the temperature of both the nozzle and the build platform?

roller
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:34 am

Genuine ABS filament prints at 270C. It is a special mix design for a higher temperature. Non genuine ABS usually finds this temp a little too high and is a little too melted. Because of that you get a few issues but the one that bothers me the most is the layers bond more and the removable support isn't removable. Too high a temp = hard/impossible to remove support.

The purpose of the Octave (and other) mods is to allow the use of non genuine filament at the temperature it was intended to print at and therefore you get the best print quality AND the support removes just as easy as genuine filament.

Other reasons the lower temp is better when using non genuine filament:
- it will smell less - running the filament too hot produces a lot of extra stinky off gassing
- it needs to be cleaned less - roasting the filament at the higher temp all the time slowly builds up roast ABS crud in the extruder
- print quality is better - many ABS filaments are a little too runny at 270C so the print just isn't as crisp as it is at the lower temp. Also you will get a lot more spurts of filament due to off-gassing so you need to keep the ABS extra dry when printing at the higher temp.

Having a mod where you can tune the temp makes the range of filament you print with optimum quality much greater.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:25 pm

roller wrote:Genuine ABS filament prints at 270C. It is a special mix design for a higher temperature. Non genuine ABS usually finds this temp a little too high and is a little too melted. Because of that you get a few issues but the one that bothers me the most is the layers bond more and the removable support isn't removable. Too high a temp = hard/impossible to remove support.

The purpose of the Octave (and other) mods is to allow the use of non genuine filament at the temperature it was intended to print at and therefore you get the best print quality AND the support removes just as easy as genuine filament.

Other reasons the lower temp is better when using non genuine filament:
- it will smell less - running the filament too hot produces a lot of extra stinky off gassing
- it needs to be cleaned less - roasting the filament at the higher temp all the time slowly builds up roast ABS crud in the extruder
- print quality is better - many ABS filaments are a little too runny at 270C so the print just isn't as crisp as it is at the lower temp. Also you will get a lot more spurts of filament due to off-gassing so you need to keep the ABS extra dry when printing at the higher temp.

Having a mod where you can tune the temp makes the range of filament you print with optimum quality much greater.
Thank you for the explanation. If people only use the filament from the company that made the Up Plus 2, is it still better to get the Octave mod?

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by pleppik » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:56 am

hajime wrote:
Thank you for the explanation. If people only use the filament from the company that made the Up Plus 2, is it still better to get the Octave mod?
If you stick to the Up-branded filament, there's no reason to get the temperature mod. The Up-brand filament is optimized to print at the standard temperature, whereas most third-party filament works better at a lower temperature.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:53 am

Thanks for the replies.

I have a question. When I pressed the heat build platform button, it seems that it only heated the platform slowly but did not heat the nozzle. How can I increase the temperature of the nozzle (ideally in a short period of time in minutes)?

doraemon
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:37 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by doraemon » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:03 am

There really isn't a way to pre-heat the extruder nozzle, unlike the build plate. But unlike the build plate, the nozzle heats up quickly once you hit the Print button, not more than a few minutes at most.

roller
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by roller » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:51 pm

doraemon wrote:There really isn't a way to pre-heat the extruder nozzle, unlike the build plate. But unlike the build plate, the nozzle heats up quickly once you hit the Print button, not more than a few minutes at most.
Well you can do an extrude. My process typically is ... Open up and start heat platform 1 hr. Wander off and do other stuff. 5 mins later I come back and do an extrude. I load my model and get it set up how I want. Do some print previews to check my print time and plastic used. Once the filament has extruded ... I hit print. As soon as it's sliced and uploaded it prints.

hajime
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:51 am

Re: Accessories for Up Plus 2

Post by hajime » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:48 am

roller wrote:
doraemon wrote:There really isn't a way to pre-heat the extruder nozzle, unlike the build plate. But unlike the build plate, the nozzle heats up quickly once you hit the Print button, not more than a few minutes at most.
Well you can do an extrude. My process typically is ... Open up and start heat platform 1 hr. Wander off and do other stuff. 5 mins later I come back and do an extrude. I load my model and get it set up how I want. Do some print previews to check my print time and plastic used. Once the filament has extruded ... I hit print. As soon as it's sliced and uploaded it prints.
I am a bit confused about reheating the platform for 1 hour. As I recall, it took an average of 5-10 minutes to heat the platform to 100c. Two persons have told me that 100c is sufficient to start printing.

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