Know what is going on?

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hajime
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Know what is going on?

Post by hajime » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:12 am

Hello, I tried to print using the Up Plus 2 on a Mac. The software version is 1.4 (2). It is the latest one I found on the website.

Q1: When I loaded the STL file for a plate into the program, it was in standing position. I made it lying on the buildplate. In this case, should I raise the distance between my model and the build plate by making it somehow like floating on the build platform? Does the program automatically insert raft in between to make it easy for me to remove the model? I suppose that if I don't, it will be difficult to remove my model after it is printed. Moreover, curling may occur.

Q2: The printing looked good for the first 10 minutes. Then, I went out for lunch. When I came back, I found a messy situation. What is going on here? The plate was build but: a) there are lots of curling b) some screw holes were not printed properly. Some are too small for me to insert the screw. c) The plate is not as think as my STL model. I guess some of the plastic was wasted (see those left over under the build plate. Any way to solve this problem?

Thanks.
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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Know what is going on?

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:25 am

Looks like your part warped and popped off the build plate and then the nozzle pushed it off the printer and after that you will always get noodles.
I recommend you toss the perf board and switch to glass and glue stick and get that bed trammed (level) to the nozzle and the gap to the bed even to 1 or 2 thicknesses (@ 0.200mm) of standard printer paper across the entire glass plate.

Regards
Drew
Drew Petitclerc
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Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
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roller
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Re: Know what is going on?

Post by roller » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:18 am

DrewPetitclerc wrote:Looks like your part warped and popped off the build plate and then the nozzle pushed it off the printer and after that you will always get noodles.
I recommend you toss the perf board and switch to glass and glue stick and get that bed trammed (level) to the nozzle and the gap to the bed even to 1 or 2 thicknesses (@ 0.200mm) of standard printer paper across the entire glass plate.

Regards
Drew
I know you prefer glass but having printed on glass and kapton for years I am surprised who easy and reliable the perfboard is. The great thing about perfboard is it actually allows you to starts a little closer than normal because the whole allow some backpressure relief (many of mine are clogged but there's always a few free. As for stick reliability I would say it's equal to my best Kapton plates.

In this particular case I would lower the start point a fraction and push it into the perfboard a little harder. The inital prints on perfboard are the least reliable. Leave the plastic that gets stuck in the holes as it will help bonding later and avoid handling the printing side of the plate as much as possible - skin oils reduce adhesion of your print.

Now I don't mean to contradict Drew but a new user shouldn't have to run out and buy anything else. Printing with perfboard requires a little consideration and then you will have a long productive experience with them.

mr6k
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Know what is going on?

Post by mr6k » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:56 am

hi roller,
i note you are suggesting lowering the start point somewhat. now i am not running the latest software or firmware, however i got the impression that regardless of where you manouvre the z axis to, the print always started at the same place. the only way to lower the start point, that i know of, is to set the platform start closer using te maintenance feature. i.e. i normally set for two sheets of 90 gram paper just lightly pinching between the extruder head and platform. so maybe setting for just one sheet thickness may help.

i agree that oil from fingers etc will destroy a good bond between platform and abs. can i suggest the usual assist. wipe the platform with acetone / mek, then maybe wipe again with a cloth soaked in the same solvent that has been rubbed over a bit of abs, so as to cover the platform in a very thin layer of abs.


cheers

peter

roller
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Re: Know what is going on?

Post by roller » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:23 pm

mr6k wrote:hi roller,
i note you are suggesting lowering the start point somewhat. now i am not running the latest software or firmware, however i got the impression that regardless of where you manouvre the z axis to, the print always started at the same place. the only way to lower the start point, that i know of, is to set the platform start closer using te maintenance feature. i.e. i normally set for two sheets of 90 gram paper just lightly pinching between the extruder head and platform. so maybe setting for just one sheet thickness may help.

i agree that oil from fingers etc will destroy a good bond between platform and abs. can i suggest the usual assist. wipe the platform with acetone / mek, then maybe wipe again with a cloth soaked in the same solvent that has been rubbed over a bit of abs, so as to cover the platform in a very thin layer of abs.


cheers

peter
Yes, you are correct in your assumptions. Set the start platform height for 1 sheet of paper off the bed instead of 2. Run it that way for a few prints and get some of those holes filled. It's works better after that. I'd say my start height is a tight 2 sheets ie there is a bit of grip and why I have come to prefer paper to feeler guages.

I could clean the boards with acetone but once you print with glass a lot you see just how much cleaning it takes to get the surface really clean and really adhering again. I find it easy to avoid touching the print side on the perf board and so I do that and I haven't cleaned a board in 9+ months. I also print on the rougher more matte side of the boards not the shinier side.

I have found the perfboards surprisingly good to work with, so much so I tried to convert my repraps to use them (when the base smoothness didn't matter but with the larger print area and board size they bend up too much in the centre when heated. I live in a humid climate so this probably can't be helped.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Know what is going on?

Post by JuliaDee » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:23 am

I switch back and forth between glass and perfboard depending on the part and my mood, but I think perfboard (with raft) is best for beginners. Perfboard gives maximum adhesion over a wide variety of part geometries, and raft is forgiving of bed tram.

Hajime, as the others have mentioned, make sure your first layer is getting pushed into the perfboard holes. If it's mostly sitting on top of the perfboard then your starting platform height is too low. If your nozzle is bumping around on the first layer or the extruder stepper makes clicking sounds then it's too high.

Yes, the software will automatically put your parts at the correct height when you click the "Place" button - you don't have to worry about leaving space for a raft etc. - that's all automatic.

The acetone wipe before printing does three things (#3 is something I realized only recently):

1) cleans off any oils
2) softens the abs that's in the perfboard holes to make the new extrusion stick better
3) when there is already plastic in the holes, some of that plastic gets picked up by the acetone and is spread all over the perfboard, forming a thin coating of "ABS glue" over the surface, which helps adhesion even more

If and when you do try the glass-and-glue-stick method, try to get genuine Elmers brand glue sticks. I tried some generic OfficeMax stuff and it did not work as well as Elmers disappearing purple.

julia

chippwalters
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Re: Know what is going on?

Post by chippwalters » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:38 am

I'm fairly new to the Afinia, but not to 3D printing in general and I agree with what has been said. I have had terrible problems on other printers with ABS warpage and inability to stick to print platforms. The perfboard for me was ridiculously easy, and also very forgiving. After perhaps 40-50 prints, I switched to glass and Elmers purple glue stick, and while it did take more careful attention to bed level and z-height, it worked well, too.

FWIW, I prefer glass when I'm doing a raftless, supportless print (like my daughter's halloween jack-o-latern), but like the perfboard when I'm printing many tolerance sensitive parts together with raft and supports.

After reading Julia's technique (posted in other threads as well), I *always* wipe the perfboard with acetone and rag right before printing. Works great!

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