Glue Stick vs Hairspray

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JuliaDee
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Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:52 am

I've been using washable glue stick per Drew's recommendation for a couple of weeks now. It works great once you get a feel for how much to put down. Never fails. Nice matte finish on the bottoms of parts. On the other hand, I dislike the sticky residue that ends up all over my build plates, tools, parts, work area, hands, etc. I don't have a sink in my shop so have to resort to paper towels and a jug of water. I can get by with scraping the glass between prints a number of times between thorough washings.

Seeking a "cleaner" solution, today I tried Aquanet Extra-Hold unscented hairspray. Goes on nice (apart from a momentary cloud of noxious and probably highly toxic fumes) and almost disappears on the glass, looking very elegant and clean during printing. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work at all for me. 5 out of 6 test prints lifted badly or came off completely. I tried a thin coat, and I tried spraying a sh*t-ton of the stuff on there (the latter seemed to work a little better).

Back to glue stick, methinks.

julia

LonV
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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by LonV » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:04 am

Keep giving hairspray a try. :) I find that it works (in the long run) far better than the glue stick (which I used for a long time).

I do find that you do need sh*t-ton of it. Originally I was thinking light coats like you'd spray paint something and that doesn't work. On clean glass, I lay down 1 very thick layer (to the point where it's glossy)...let it dry, and then repeat 2 more times. It sounds like a lot, particularly when you consider how much goes down to get it glossy wet, but it dries to very thin layers.

I don't reapply every print, but I just shoot some on sometimes. I find the more I use it the better it works. I don't reclean the glass, although if you're printing raftless you'll start to see patterns from previous prints appear on your model.

doraemon
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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by doraemon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:25 am

You shouldn't need very much glue; I find it easier to control if I apply it on a cold build plate. The resultant parts might have a light layer of glue, but I haven't encountered it on my tools or hands. As for having to rinse off the plates, there's a coffee maker near the cube that has the printers, but no sink (yet), so we go down the hall to the restrooms. One option in your shop might be to leave a bucket of water and just leave extra plates soaking, then squeegee off as needed.

Haven't tried hairspray yet, though considering we've already had folks complain about the smell of the ABS filament, I doubt I could get away with using it at work. :mrgreen:

roller
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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by roller » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:32 am

Haven't tried hairspray yet, though considering we've already had folks complain about the smell of the ABS filament, I doubt I could get away with using it at work. :mrgreen:
Just blame one of the people at work who has an excessively sculpted hairdo for the odour.

Personally, I'd recommend against using hairspray inside. As a design student first time round we used to use hairspray as a fixer on all our drawings. That was fine but the overspray from using it indoors tend to build up a film over time which dust loves... so you end up with a grimey surface that was annoyingly hard to remove.

If this doesn't matter to you then be aware hairsprays have vastly varying formulas and often change without notice. We were constantly having to change brands to get the results we wanted as the properties would change often. This was most noticeable amongst the cheaper brands so presumably they were just rebranding someone elses product and whichever came in most competitive would make up the formual for 6-12 months.

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:51 pm

doraemon wrote:You shouldn't need very much glue; I find it easier to control if I apply it on a cold build plate. The resultant parts might have a light layer of glue, but I haven't encountered it on my tools or hands. As for having to rinse off the plates, there's a coffee maker near the cube that has the printers, but no sink (yet), so we go down the hall to the restrooms. One option in your shop might be to leave a bucket of water and just leave extra plates soaking, then squeegee off as needed.

Haven't tried hairspray yet, though considering we've already had folks complain about the smell of the ABS filament, I doubt I could get away with using it at work. :mrgreen:
Yes, the trick with glue stick is to quickly get an even, thin coat in the first pass. If you go over it too many times it gets messy. I would actually love to have it in liquid form and brush it on - maybe diluted Elmers glue?

The Aquanet smell dissipates quickly but at the moment of spraying it's intense. I have to hold my breath.

julia

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by doraemon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:19 pm

I suspect regular white Elmer's glue has a different formulation from the glue sticks, but I'll ask my chemist friend when I have a moment. There is a larger version of the glue sticks, which might make it quicker to apply the glue, too. IIRC it's about 3 times the size. Also, since this stuff *is* water soluble, maybe dissolve it in some sort of solvent and then apply with a brush?

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:28 pm

doraemon wrote:since this stuff *is* water soluble, maybe dissolve it in some sort of solvent
You mean, like... water?

:D

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by doraemon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:07 pm

Heh, water would work of course, but I was thinking of something that would evaporate a bit more quickly. Otherwise, you'd have to "paint" it on and wait a while for it to dry. I don't know if the glue is soluble in IPA, but it probably is. That'd be OK in a shop environment. And to speed it up, I guess if you apply on a plate that was already warm, it'd dry more quickly (but beware fumes of course).

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:10 pm

doraemon wrote:Heh, water would work of course, but I was thinking of something that would evaporate a bit more quickly. Otherwise, you'd have to "paint" it on and wait a while for it to dry. I don't know if the glue is soluble in IPA, but it probably is. That'd be OK in a shop environment. And to speed it up, I guess if you apply on a plate that was already warm, it'd dry more quickly (but beware fumes of course).
I'm no chemist, that's for sure. I thought IPA was a kind of beer :)

Actually this morning I noticed the hairspray smell still lingering, so really, that's out.

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by ftdesigns » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:10 pm

Glue stick is what I use all the time and I too don't like the residue it leaves on the bottom of the print. But something else you can try is just sticking an enclosure over the machine. It has worked for me many times for reducing lifting, albeit not eliminating it.

Here you can see I use a large Tupperware covering the platform and not the bottom where the electronics are - held in place by two empty Octave spools.
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enclosure, afinia.jpg (152.2 KiB) Viewed 14689 times

doraemon
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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by doraemon » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:41 am

Hee. No, not beer. :mrgreen: I was too lazy to type out "isopropyl alcohol" last night.

What I haven't tried yet is scraping off the glue on the build plate using a single-edge razor or even a paint scraper. It should just slide off the glass and not nick anything.

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Re: Glue Stick vs Hairspray

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:55 am

doraemon wrote:Hee. No, not beer. :mrgreen: I was too lazy to type out "isopropyl alcohol" last night.

What I haven't tried yet is scraping off the glue on the build plate using a single-edge razor or even a paint scraper. It should just slide off the glass and not nick anything.
That's what I do - I use the scraper that comes with the Up/Afinia. Can do that for quite a few prints before feeling like I really need to wash it with water.

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