Glass on an Up Plus 2?

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incipienta
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Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by incipienta » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:54 pm

Has anyone used a glass build plate on an Up Plus 2?

Since the 2-style perfboard has a notch for the nozzle-detect switch, I assume existing glass plates won't fit, so I was wondering if perhaps simply sliding an old-style glass forward (and not engaging the clips at the front edge) might suffice.

...granted, I'd lose some build volume, but in many cases that wouldn't really affect things?

Or would it be wiser to just stay with perfboard and use acetone/dissolved ABS wipes to try for raftless prints?

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:07 am

I've been wondering this myself. I don't think you will lose any build volume as the table is rectangular yet the build area is square. I'm guessing that the original Up Plus had a square table, but I don't know.
So I think the new table has been extended to allow for the nozzle height detect sensor.
I was planning on getting some glass and not bothering with the clips at the back, I wouldn't have thought it would make much difference.

mr6k
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by mr6k » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:44 am

Lukeott,
You are correct the UP / Up plus have square 140mm x 140mm tables. Mine is anodized aluminum. I am a keen user of Kapton tape.

cheers
Peter

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:17 am

Hi Peter

The table on the Up Plus 2 is 140mm wide x 160mm deep, so that confirms the extra 20mm is just room for locating the sensor.

I'm going to try to get a 140mm sq sheet of glass next time I pass a picture framing shop and have a go using some glue stick.

Luke

incipienta
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by incipienta » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:00 pm

Well, this is excellent news, thank you everyone!

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:30 pm

I'll be interested to hear how you get on.
My table is currently levelled to within 0.2mm across the surface and I was considering doing this mod by Drew Petitclerc to make it easier to level in future:
http://pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... be6f#p5471

However, I'm not sure if the mod is necessary on the Up Plus 2 as the 3 levelling screws are already sprung loaded (this may be a change from the original machine). Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:17 pm

lukeott wrote:However, I'm not sure if the mod is necessary on the Up Plus 2 as the 3 leveling screws are already sprung loaded (this may be a change from the original machine). Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
The springs always were a BAD idea, If you consider you are trying to create a solid connection between the build plate and nozzle so that any vibration the system sees, all the system is locked together and the nozzle maintains a constant distance from the build plate, unless you compress the springs to a solid height they would allow the build plate to yaw or wobble in relation to the nozzle and this is bad if you consider it for a moment.

The rubber discs I use are stiff and I always tighten the 3 screws down to set the build plate as rigid as it can be without stripping out the 3 screws this ensures the build plate will stay rigid in relation to the nozzle

Regards
Drew
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:47 pm

you are trying to create a solid connection between the build plate and nozzle
I've just put some pressure on the table, yes I see what you mean.

I have some 3mm thick nitrile rubber, I think it's good to 160 deg C. Will cut out some disks and follow your instructions.

Regards

Luke

roller
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by roller » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:35 am

The springs always were a BAD idea
This is a long time point of discussion in the reprap community too. The reality is that springs are a bad idea in terms of print quality and print speed but a good idea in terms of safety. Springs allow a little give in a head crash which is much more common amongst first time owners - something I suspect makes up a significant proportion of Up owners. So the reprap consensus is this:

- always start with springs because you will make a mistake and crash the head - springs limit the damage
- if you want to go faster you need to dump your springs to maintain print quality otherwise don't bother.

Since the Up never prints that fast it's not worth it for most and if you are concerned by it you will want to also fix the "play" in the right hand support. I see a lot more print flaws from this "ringing" than from spring play.

For the record my repraps use silicon pot stands instead of springs so I stand with Drew from a design perspective but the improvement is so marginal in the Up I don't know that I would bother. Now when I print on the reprap at 300mm/s the pot stand is essential as it holds the build platform dead still, still has a fraction of give at a point for minor head crashes and insulates the build plate. But at Ups pedestrian speed it's a marginal improvement I think.

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:51 am

My main reason for thinking about putting a rubber disk under the table was to make it easier to level the bed. I'd never considered the rigidity issue before it was pointed out.

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:10 am

As a follow up from this I have added some rubber discs under the bed as per Drew's instructions and it makes it so much easier to level.

I've cut some picture framing glass to 140mm square and used that with a wipe of Pritt stick glue (UK equivalent to Elmers I guess) and it worked a treat for small parts once I got the nozzle height right.

On larger parts I still had problems with warping (I'm using ABS only) which I didn't have when using the perfboard so at the moment I'm wondering what the advantages might be unless I want to use PLA or Nylon, but it's early days and I'll certainly tinker with it a bit more.

incipienta
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by incipienta » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:46 pm

As it happens (fortuitous timing?) I too spent part of this past weekend fiddling with a glass bed on the Up Plus 2 and, as expected earlier in the thread, it worked fine.

The glass does not extend to the back of the build plate, so I can't engage all of the clips, but otherwise it's business-as-usual.

One thing I should note, for the possible benefit of future searchers: do not rely on the auto-level capabilities of the Plus2.

...I mean, it's still super-handy, but once you go raftless you will still have to carefully level your build plate and fiddle with nozzle distance -- you can't just calibrate & go, like you can with rafts + perfboard. This is not a criticism, I'm just pointing it out since the auto-level abilities of the Plus2 have made me lazy and may have affected others in a similar way....

cordawg92
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by cordawg92 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:09 pm

I'm thinking of picking up some glass for my UP Plus as well. Could I use regular picture frame glass for this? It's quite the hassle to find Borosilicate glass locally.

pilotltd
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by pilotltd » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:06 am

mr6k wrote:Lukeott,
You are correct the UP / Up plus have square 140mm x 140mm tables. Mine is anodized aluminum. I am a keen user of Kapton tape.

cheers
Peter
You gotta be careful with the 140x140 definition. I fell foul of it yesterday, I printed a part 125mm wide - in theory it should fit fine. It doesn't as the support raft ended up 5mm wider all round. The print head then hits the clamp springs. I can't test if the software includes the raft in any maximum dimension and barfs that the print is too big at the moment as I have a long print running but I'll check that later.

I managed it by jamming 2mm screws under the springs so they were only just holding the perfboard down, first attempt failed - it moved, but second was OK.

If your printing raftless you should be fine, just bear it in mind ;)

Steve

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 pm

cordawg92 wrote:I'm thinking of picking up some glass for my UP Plus as well. Could I use regular picture frame glass for this? It's quite the hassle to find Borosilicate glass locally.
I used picture frame glass, seems to be OK.

cordawg92
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by cordawg92 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:33 pm

lukeott wrote:
cordawg92 wrote:I'm thinking of picking up some glass for my UP Plus as well. Could I use regular picture frame glass for this? It's quite the hassle to find Borosilicate glass locally.
I used picture frame glass, seems to be OK.
Is it able to withstand the 100C temperatures of the heated bed?

lukeott
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by lukeott » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:15 pm

It has for the dozen or so prints I've done on it so far. I'm sure that it won't last as long as pyrex, but it's cheap and readily available.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:43 pm

I now have 5 UP Plus printers I deal with and all are using cheap picture frame glass for over 2 years and not a single one has cracked or chipped due to heating or rapid cooling in front of a fan, the only break happened when I dropped the scraper on the glass.

Regards
Drew
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

incipienta
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Re: Glass on an Up Plus 2?

Post by incipienta » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:16 pm

Well, I discovered an unexpected drawback when using glass on an Up Plus 2 -- since the glass is smaller than the print bed (due to the nozzle-height switch at the back), there are three clips that do not engage. As it turns out, this can create the occasional problem on a large print -- the glass can slip backwards on the bed, ruining your print.

I'm presently testing the use of a tiny wad of F4 tape to hold the glass in place -- if this slips again I expect I'll have to use some binder clips to hold the glass in place.

...printing again as I speak, so we'll see what happens...

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