3D printers Advisors

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wilsonj
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by wilsonj » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:46 pm

roller wrote:
wilsonj wrote:Haha. Resistance is useless..... :D
Resistance is brilliant ... for lowering the temp to get great print results with all these fancy filaments. :P
:D :D
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:34 pm

Luckily it is re badged Reprapper filament sold by many around the world.
Many you say... around the world you say... well, I guess if I got free shipping for ordering bulk, I might look around this "world" you speak of.

As a man of experience, do you perchance know how to get this "Afinia" silver to print properly? It comes out thick as, and the rafts might as be welded on. I'm guessing it's just a temperature thing, but I'm still waiting for my temp. mod.

P.S. (on the topic - to the OTP) - no it doesn't look anything like silver, but it's good for printing um.... heavy things that don't require detail (or support).

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:37 pm

Oh, I must append this... (since I can't EDIT my post) ... the white abs that shipped with my printer is the only ABS i've had that actually dissolves properly in acetone. But I buy cheap ABS.

Worth keeping a roll around, just for those big things that you have to "glue" together. (For anyone reading this thread some day).

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:45 pm

Shoot, tripple posting... so lame... anyway, to PROPERLY answer the OP's question...

The budget line of Afinia ($31 USD), which certain un-interested parties say is re-badged "Reprapper" (then what is the premium Afinia?) the ordinary /fluro colors print great on my UP! No problems at all. Now, the glow in the dark stuff, that is a little trickier, but not impossible to work with (and it really does glow in the dark, a bit). The metalics? If they're all like the Silver, they're horrific. I've not tried the color changing nonsense.

Can we get a clarification on the budget Afinia and the premium Afinia and it's relation to re-badged Reprapper? I'd like to order at least $150 worth of new ABS from (somewhere in the world) and I know it works well.

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:09 pm

http://nt4.com/ss/afinia_silver
A good, and a bad print.

http://nt4.com/ss/afinia_silver_bottom.jpg
The bottom (which I used pictured knife to separate from raft) is a lighter colour, but clearly plastic. Knife is in picture to give comparison, but bear in mind there's a 150W halogen doing the illumination, which can make almost anything look shiny.

sorry, pictures were too wide to post inline.

roller
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by roller » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:00 am

You can edit your old posts - check now as it's probably a limitation of your first few posts (common spam prevention measures).

Filament can sometimes even change from batch to batch. It's a matter of finding the temp that best suits the filament you buy - something that is only possible with a temp mod and a little trial and error when you first get a roll. I couldn't see the first sample pictures and just got a website error (are you in Australia? seem to be an Aussie web page - if so check out www.3dprintergear.com.au for filament - that is wilsonj's store).

All ABS should dissolve in acetone (with time) and dissolve slightly more aggressively in MEK. You can restore the colour to whitened stress areas like where the raft separated with some acetone... but it will end up with a shiny rather than matte finish.

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:22 am

I can probably edit my posts, once I can see them, but they still have to be "moderated" before they show up.

I am infact in Melbourne, and I did indeed check out said (world wide options) and I can tell just by the colors, that it is the same stuff as the Afinia - which works brilliantly as long as you don't get any more exotic than "clear". I quite like the "clear" actually, it's almost psychedelic.

I'm thinking of going "the whole hog" and trying to get a good price on "1 of everything please."

I'll be getting my temp control kit (got lazy, buying a plug-n-play system from Amazon) this week, which will allow me to play some more. Sorry about the images, I neglected to put ".jpg" after their names. I did however take a much better picture this morning, as I whipped the part of the printer.

Image

It's the first time I've attempted a .25mm print, and it's not too bad. A lot of knife-work required to get it off the raft, but I think the full model will turn out well.

Oh, regarding the melting of ABS in acetone, all ABS melts, it's just that the stock filament was the only one that turned into a proper homogenous gloop that could be used like glue - the rest turned out with chunky bits (impurities I'm sure).

[edit] Aha! An edit button. Just read this from the Afinia website, sums it up perfectly - although I've had no trouble with the non-metal/glow/sex-panther a.k.a. "ordinary" value stuff.
The lower extrusion temperature on the Value-line filament causes the raft and support material to adhere a bit harder to the model making it slightly more difficult to remove as compared to the Premium filament, but nothing too noticeable. The matched extrusion temperature on the Premium filament and H479 also has the added benefit of slightly higher tolerance control on the dimensions of the model. Both filaments work well, but the Premium works the best.

roller
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by roller » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:42 am

Actually, it's the stock filament that contains lots of non ABS additives - hence the higher melting point. You just needed more solvent or more time. Anyway, if you'd prefer a more sensible temp mod send me a PM. I suggest you check out local suppliers - you can wait weeks only to find out they screwed up a batch and you have near useless filament and you often end up out of pocket for shipping at least.

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:32 pm

I have one of these little kits arriving this week:

Image

Granted, it doesn't look like there is a whole lot of flexibility there, but it's neat, and if I do decide to mod it by taping a bunch of cats together with tape and an Arduino, I won't render my printer inoperable.

I actually tried something new today - I told the Mac OS X UP! software that I was putting a roll of PLA in. I didn't think it would do anything. But surprisingly it did, it dropped the bed temp to 50º and my print wouldn't stick. Still, that silver ABS did come out looking a little thinner - so there is hope yet../

Here's today's print.

Image

Love the "hair."

The U.S. price for ABS seems to be locked in at $31/kg at the moment, so sites like Bilby's that are offering ABS for $39/kg, and printergear ($40/kg) are certainly keeping competitive.

But to honour the OP's question, and to put my brain at rest, lets try and work something out... Namely, which ABS is which, after all the brand names are stripped off. Else we're comparing apples and rebranded apples.

I know wilsonj is correct about Afinia, because the range of non-premium colors he sells are the same as what Infinia offer, particular the colors I have bought from Afinia before:

(i) AFINIA 3D String Yellow 1
(i) AFINIA 3D String Silver 1
(i) AFINIA 3D String Orange1
(i) AFINIA 3D String Blue 1
(i) AFINIA 3D String Clear 1
(i) AFINIA 3D String Glow Blue
(i) AFINIA 3D String Green 1

But when I look at bilby's site, the colors aren't quite right. There's a dark green, but no stealth-fluro green.


At least they have (vague) temperature guidelines for each color on bilby's site.

So maybe they are Octave? You tell me :) I looked at your collection of "Octave" ABS, and I can't really tell... is that stealth fluro green that blinds you when you step into the sunlight with a piece?

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wilsonj
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by wilsonj » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:22 pm

The single biggest issue I have with the value range of ABS is the strength. It's no where near as strong as the OEM or the premium range. Last week, in a hurry, I made some new hinges for my personal UP enclosure. I wanted red and only had some value red handy so used that. It lasted a day before the hinges just snapped off! So whilst the value range is well priced, prints fine with a temp mod and comes in a good range of colours I wouldn't recommend it if you need a strong semi functional part.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:20 am

So is there any real difference between the Octave range, and the stuff that wilson sells? Apart from the colors?

BTW, I finally finished (sorta) my prop piece, and I have to admit, it is silver-ish. Someone I showed it too asked me if I had used some kind of special material, although he called it "gunmetal" rather than silver.

Image

And in the right light, the printed material does look metalic-ish, I have to admit. It's just hard finding the right light :)

Image

That last is a .40mm print BTW, the rest have been .25mm

roller
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by roller » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:40 am

Yes, PLA setting prints at a PLA temp. I don't use it anymore because I don't like the retraction settings on PLA mode so I always print on ABS and use my temp mod to take the temp down to that required for optimum printing. The Octave temp mods are handy but not that great as you only get a single temp - check out this thread for the ones many of the serious printing people have made for themselves (mines the thumbwheel mod on the second page that tells you how many tens of degrees to subtract - idiot proof!).

I am sure you found on the PLA setting that the support and raft were easier to remove but the PLA setting gives you that stringing from being either a little too low or the retract being a little underdone on that mode. Given the output are you sure you are printing with ABS - looks like PLA to me. If that's what you were trying to dissolve in acetone - it wont.

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:08 am

Given the output are you sure you are printing with ABS - looks like PLA to me. If that's what you were trying to dissolve in acetone - it wont.
I'm giving you *the look*.

Different mixes of ABS (varying percentages of acrylonitrile, butadiene, and styrene) combined with further blending to alter colour and thermal qualities, of what is already a copolymer, cause differing melt flow rates. i.e. that silver is just too hot, and it comes out too fast. Various ABS based composites dissolve with varying efficacy in acetone.

PLA is made from corn starch, tapioca pudding, and rabbit's feet, by luddites somewhere west of the bible belt of China. It is easily dissolved in goat urine.

ANYWAY, I was just about to ask you about various temp mods, since I noticed with some chagrin, that for an extra $20, I could have gotten this octave model: Image

I will check out the thread you mention, although I can imagine going the extra 10 meters and wiring up a small microprocessor with a USB UART, since the printer is in the other room, and I hate having to get up and poke at it all the time.

P.S. Which thread was I meant to be checking?

pleppik
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by pleppik » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:08 pm

[quote="sfinktah"ANYWAY, I was just about to ask you about various temp mods, since I noticed with some chagrin, that for an extra $20, I could have gotten this octave model: [/quote]

Wow, I haven't had to deal with a DIP switch in years! Brings me back to fond memories of Heathkit.

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JuliaDee
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:19 am

sfinktah wrote: P.S. Which thread was I meant to be checking?
This one, maybe: http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22170

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:20 am

Ahh yes, I found that one. I actually have a 10 position rotary switch here, chunky big thing, but quite light (all plastic I guess). Scored it when I bought two of these kits from DSE that were being run out at $50.

Image

Should be a bunch of identical resistors in there also, so I'm all up for doing exactly that mod.

But there might be another way... if someone could identify the precise temperate differences between PLA in version 1.15 and version 1.16, I could have a hunt through the disassembled code and see if there wasn't a temperature patch that could be applied.

edit: hang on, you're not roller. you look nothing like roller,... also Connecticut is nowhere near my country. so, required translation: DSE: "Dick Smith Electronics" (australia thing, kinda like a radioshack that collided a best buy. And nice work on the rotary. rotaries are always cool. but not as cool as rocket switches.

@pleptik(sp) if you haven't seen a dip switch in that long, you clearly missed the bulletin on circuit bending these awesome $10 voice changing megaphones Image

roller
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by roller » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:13 pm

Perhaps I should post a pic on my profile so you can see just how different Julia and I look :p

I still think the thumbwheel makes the coolest mod but of course I would :P . I made my own dipswitch mod ages ago ... was useful for experimentation with what would upset the printer but other than that it was a pain. Rotary switches are indeed a pain to get here in Oz ... wish I'd picked up one of those projects from DSE for other needs.


Image

sfinktah
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by sfinktah » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:58 pm

Wow. That's pretty sexy. I actually have a bunch of those little decimal encoder thingies, but I must admit, I have no idea how they work. I kinda figured they output over 3 or 4 lines, like a numeric keypad, and would require me to tangle my brain to use them.

Hmm... if you added another two of those (even dummy ones), you could [pretend to] directly set the desired temperature.

Image

If 4 is a lower temperature than 5, then it would just be a matter of adjusting the total resistance. But the sky would be the limit if you wanted to get down to precise degrees :)
Of course, dialling in 190 might be an issue.

The value line ABS I (we) use does seem to be printing a little better with the $20 Octave switch I attached today, and it did do exactly as promised (dropped the temp by 30º). So now that I have a nice little unit with all the wires and clips and such. I must say, since I do have the digital switches here, your solution does look attractive.

It would be nice to get an STL of the (UP Plus Mk 10) extruder cover, in order to make a nice custom job. I wanted to attach a webcam to mine today, but was peeved to find that it only comes in UP format.

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JuliaDee
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:51 pm

sfinktah wrote:Of course, dialling in 190 might be an issue.
Especially when the extruder is in motion. That's why I prefer the rotary - it's quite easy to change on the fly while printing. Occasionally the printer will object with a high or low temp error, but going one step at a time and waiting 15 seconds between steps is pretty reliable.

roller
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Re: 3D printers Advisors

Post by roller » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:19 am

JuliaDee wrote:
sfinktah wrote:Of course, dialling in 190 might be an issue.
Especially when the extruder is in motion. That's why I prefer the rotary - it's quite easy to change on the fly while printing. Occasionally the printer will object with a high or low temp error, but going one step at a time and waiting 15 seconds between steps is pretty reliable.
And that's why I prefer pushbutton on the thumbwheel !!! Requires even less coordination to change temps :D

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