Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

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rsilvers
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Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:22 am


roller
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by roller » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:45 am

Are you printing any of these test pieces on an up because, although academically interesting, you results are not very useful to UP! users if they don't represent the fill, temp and layer settings of an up printer as this so significantly affects the structural integrity of objects?

There reason I ask is I have some nice premium ABS that makes the toughest prints on my reprap but on the Up it is weaker than the budget filament so I have found any testing I do on reprap does not correlate well to the Up where I get control of many print variables. It would be nice to know if your results provide us with any reliable expectations.

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rsilvers
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:01 pm

No, it is not on an Up!, but I am hoping to inspire people to repeat the testing - which is why I share the models.

roller
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by roller » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:01 pm

Well we also have the issue that the UP! is not tolerant of filament that is under or oversized without modification.

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rsilvers
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:47 pm

T645 broke. It was about 11% lighter though, so this test should be repeated with the extrusion multiplier set to about 12% higher, and then see if it still breaks first. My result so far seem to indicate that either the trimmer line is stronger, or within 12% of the strength of T645. I am not sure which.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:05 pm

I've read that some trimmer line contains glass or similar fibers, which would obviously increase its shtrenph considerably.

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rsilvers
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:59 pm

There may be some brands that have glass in them, but it seems at least very rare, and not in the cheap stuff. If it does, it will clog your nozzle. Just avoid anything that says professional grade.

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rsilvers
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:05 am

I completed the second test. This time I made sure that the weights were closely matched through control of the extrusion multiplier. 5.86 grams for the trimmer line and 5.93 grams for the T645. That is less than 1.2% difference. This time the T645 won. I set up tow straps with my Sequoia, and the samples did not break when I took my foot off the brake and let the truck creep forward. They just stopped the truck from moving! Then I gave more gas and the blue snapped. I bet these can support my weight many times over.

From these very limited sample points, it appears that the T645 is stronger, by at most about 9.7%.

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scubamatt41
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by scubamatt41 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:58 am

Very interresting. Seems the trimmer line fails under shockload and the T645 goes trough plastic deformation before breaking. If you intend to use these while climbing, the trimmer line connector will fail immediately when falling. The T645 would extend your life for a vew seconds. :roll:

Not only scubadiving rocks my boot! The only equipment I would use when climbing are either from DMM or Petzl (no connection to either)
They do the proper research/testing ;)

Could you possibly put a load cel (dig. or analog) into the setup?
Cheers
Always breath out on the way UP

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rsilvers
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by rsilvers » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:02 pm

I don't have one but if someone loans me one I can.

eskimo3883
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by eskimo3883 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:44 pm

I have also had great results using this particular brand of trimmer line. If you purchase 2 spools (3lb each) the shipping is free and the cost comes down to ~$7 a pound. There is no glass in this material. This makes it low quality trimmer line but very good for printing. I run it on a hot bed set for ABS with a nozzle temp of at 135C to 140C (http://www2.artaylor.co.uk/pp3dp.html; very happy with this unit). Prints are very strong due to its flexibility. I print ABS to glass covered with Kempton. For nylon I turn over my Kempton covered glass and print to the glass surface lightly coated with Elmer’s washable school glue stick (suggestion off the internet, not my idea). I get zero lifting yet it’s easy to remove parts. You can re-fresh the glass with more glue stick. I find printing this material to be equivilent in ease to ABS.

Do not place the glue stick coated glass surface face down on your build plate until its glue free. This glue stick is not a weak bond. It is unfortunate the glue stick works only marginally with ABS because it’s much friendlier than Kempton tape. Its meant for kids and has a very easy cleanup the glass (ot the base of a printed part) can be held under a stream of warm water for about 15 sec and the surface becomes completely clean.

Under very humid conditions nylon can contain up to 10% water by weight. My ambient relative humidity is ~35% and at this low Rh my nylon contains 3.7% water. I have found it is critical to dry the material before printing (8h at 90C or 24C at 65C). If I do not dry it the printing pops, releases steam, and the print becomes a bit weak. Worst thing is the water content causes thin wispy filaments to form which is difficult to remove and the final color is a whitish blue due to its rough surface. When dry zero popping, zero steam, zero wispy filaments and the color is identical to the native filament. After its dried it takes about 24h at 35% Rh to start to have printing issues and needs to be dried. I am working on a dispensing box with desicant to see how long it will take to dry it at room temperature.

The trimmer line is slightly smaller diameter than traditional filament. I had no issue but I should point out my UP! has Drew's mod to adjust tension on the filament/drive wheel. Actually, my printer has all of Drew's mods and I can't say enough nice things about them all. His air flow control made a night and day difference on raft removal. The stiffer print head connection made a very big improvement on surface quality (no head bobbing of the nozzle).

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JuliaDee
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by JuliaDee » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:13 am

Thanks, eskimo, great report. What's your nylon-drying procedure? Oh never mind, I see it now, sorry!

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scubamatt41
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by scubamatt41 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:59 am

@ eskimo 3883 Any progress ? :)
eskimo3883 wrote: I am working on a dispensing box with desicant to see how long it will take to dry it at room temperature.
Always breath out on the way UP

eskimo3883
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Re: Nylon vs Nylon - strength test part Deux

Post by eskimo3883 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:16 pm

Not sure if it was intermittent heating of my platform (broken heater wire would re-connect at certain positions of the platform) or not cleaning my glass plate well enough before the glue was applied but I have stripped off all my Kapton tape and am now printing all my ABS on glass plate and washable glue stick (Elmer's washable schoolglue stick, disappearing purple, large size stick is 1" diameter). I have printed several 140 mm OD disks using ABS with zero lift. Removal is clean using a blade to initiate peel. You can touch the glue layer up between prints or just rinse it under warm water and lay down a new layer.

Very large prints come off easier when the platform is still warm. If you are afraid you are using too much force for the cold glass try warming up the bed a bit.

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