partial print then air print issue

Share your experience with UP BOX and UP BOX+
Post Reply
okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:41 am

Ive had my up box for about a week now, I've completed 2 smaller prints and one larger 18 hour print before I started to run into problems. I loaded up another 18 hour print and it started fine. About two hours into the print it began to air print and no more filament was passing through the nozzle. I cancelled the print and cleaned out the extruder and nozzle. Ive also cleaned the gear with some acetone and a metal bristled brush.

I set up the print again and it begun like before, but soon was back to air printing. If i pause the print job I can extrude the filament perfectly.

Im really confused as to why it can extrude without hassle but doesnt complete the print. Am I doing something wrong or missing a step in the printing process? Any help would be appreciated.

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by pleppik » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:48 pm

1) What kind of filament are you using, and where did you get it? Some third-party filament doesn't perform well or may even contain impurities that can clog the nozzle (though this is a lot less of a problem than it used to be).

2) What kind of environment is your printer in? ABS likes to attract dust particles in the air through static electricity, and these get stuck in the nozzle and clog it. It's a good idea to run the filament through a piece of foam sponge to clean it before it goes into the printer's filament path.

okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:27 am

Im using a 500gm spool of the UP abs filament that came with the printer.

After reading your reply I added some soft foam to collect any static or dust but it did not solve the issue =/

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by pleppik » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:54 am

Did you clean out the nozzle with acetone after the clogs? If not, soak it in acetone overnight and use a very thin tool (like a sewing needle) to clean as much stuff out of the nozzle as you can.

The next thing I would check is whether the filament can get pulled into the feeder with minimal friction, or whether it might be sticking or binding somewhere.

KiwiEv
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by KiwiEv » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:11 am

Hi Ok,

I've had my new UPBOX for a few weeks too. Ran into the same problem as you. Running V2.17 and the Box came with the latest extruder shroud (filament drops straight down into extruder). My earlier UpBox has a nozzle height around 206.*. This new one auto calibrated at 209.* They look the same but have different characteristics. Nothing is equal in this world.
Anyway I found by backing off the nozzle height by 0.2 (it's 208 point something now) in software solved the issue. Maybe your nozzle is printing too close to the perfboard like mine was? Anyway my 2c worth. Cheers.

okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:35 pm

KiwiEv wrote:Hi Ok,

I've had my new UPBOX for a few weeks too. Ran into the same problem as you. Running V2.17 and the Box came with the latest extruder shroud (filament drops straight down into extruder). My earlier UpBox has a nozzle height around 206.*. This new one auto calibrated at 209.* They look the same but have different characteristics. Nothing is equal in this world.
Anyway I found by backing off the nozzle height by 0.2 (it's 208 point something now) in software solved the issue. Maybe your nozzle is printing too close to the perfboard like mine was? Anyway my 2c worth. Cheers.
This solved it! I ended up manually calibrating with a piece of paper and it works fine. I had one air print lat night but I think that is just the gear that needs cleaning at it finished 60% of the print before it stopped extruding. Thanks for the advice guys!

okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:32 am

So I thought manually calibrating my nozzle had fixed the issues I was having. I got one good print out of my UP Box since I calibrated it. Now I'm back to getting partial prints then air print for the rest. The nozzle, extruder and gear are all perfectly clean when I begin the print. The nozzle begins the air print and I perform a withdraw, the filament has gear marks in it and a strange chunk taken out of the top section of it, however there is no sound of clicking as it continues with the air print.

I'm trying to work out if this issue is related to the nozzle and extruder, and if so what the issue is, or if there is some other underlying issue which im overlooking.I dont think the issue is with nozzle height as it begins to print the model evenly and often gets about 80% of it complete before failing. I did look at the bearing on the gear motor that helps feed the filament into the extruder, however it looks quite clean and there is no sign of damage or dust.

I've had this printer a little over three weeks now and I've had more failed prints than successful ones. I'm really starting to regret this purchase =/

pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by pleppik » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:38 pm

okhrana wrote:So I thought manually calibrating my nozzle had fixed the issues I was having. I got one good print out of my UP Box since I calibrated it. Now I'm back to getting partial prints then air print for the rest. The nozzle, extruder and gear are all perfectly clean when I begin the print. The nozzle begins the air print and I perform a withdraw, the filament has gear marks in it and a strange chunk taken out of the top section of it, however there is no sound of clicking as it continues with the air print.

I'm trying to work out if this issue is related to the nozzle and extruder, and if so what the issue is, or if there is some other underlying issue which im overlooking.I dont think the issue is with nozzle height as it begins to print the model evenly and often gets about 80% of it complete before failing. I did look at the bearing on the gear motor that helps feed the filament into the extruder, however it looks quite clean and there is no sign of damage or dust.

I've had this printer a little over three weeks now and I've had more failed prints than successful ones. I'm really starting to regret this purchase =/
If you're getting at least the first few layers before the print stops you can rule out any problems with the bed height or leveling. Those will cause problems only on the first layer or three.

There are a number of things which can cause the problems you're having. It's best to try to eliminate them one by one until you find the problem:
  • Nozzle is contaminated with dirt or dust. Can be solved with a careful cleaning or replacing the nozzle.
  • Filament is too large and jamming in the front end. Measure the filament diameter with a digital caliper and make sure it's not larger than 1.80mm. Feel along the filament for any bumps. Try a different roll of filament.
  • Filament has dust on the outside which is clogging the nozzle. Pass the filament through a sponge just before it goes into the feed mechanism to wipe off dust (also, give the nozzle a good cleaning).
  • Filament is contaminated with foreign material in the plastic itself. This rarely happens but has been known to be an occasional problem. Get a different roll of filament and clean your nozzle.
  • Too much back-force on the filament path. Check for binding by pulling filament by hand, it should pull smoothly. If it binds or catches at all, this is a manufacturing defect and should be covered by warranty.
  • Excessive heat buildup in the cool side of the extruder is causing filament to soften in the feed gear. This happens most often with PLA, but If your hot end isn't put together properly (heatsink missing or out of place, fan not working right, etc.) it could happen with ABS, too. If you're an expert user you can easily take apart and reassemble your extruder, but as a novice you probably don't want to do this. This is a manufacturing defect and would be covered under warranty.
  • Not enough clamping force between the feed gear and the bearing to properly grip the filament. If this component is out of spec it could cause filament to strip rather than feed; this would be a manufacturing defect and covered under warranty.
I'd contact support and see if they have other ideas. If you can eliminate the filament and environment related problems, then chances are you have a defective extruder and they should be able to swap it out for you.

okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:39 am

pleppik wrote:
okhrana wrote:So I thought manually calibrating my nozzle had fixed the issues I was having. I got one good print out of my UP Box since I calibrated it. Now I'm back to getting partial prints then air print for the rest. The nozzle, extruder and gear are all perfectly clean when I begin the print. The nozzle begins the air print and I perform a withdraw, the filament has gear marks in it and a strange chunk taken out of the top section of it, however there is no sound of clicking as it continues with the air print.

I'm trying to work out if this issue is related to the nozzle and extruder, and if so what the issue is, or if there is some other underlying issue which im overlooking.I dont think the issue is with nozzle height as it begins to print the model evenly and often gets about 80% of it complete before failing. I did look at the bearing on the gear motor that helps feed the filament into the extruder, however it looks quite clean and there is no sign of damage or dust.

I've had this printer a little over three weeks now and I've had more failed prints than successful ones. I'm really starting to regret this purchase =/
If you're getting at least the first few layers before the print stops you can rule out any problems with the bed height or leveling. Those will cause problems only on the first layer or three.

There are a number of things which can cause the problems you're having. It's best to try to eliminate them one by one until you find the problem:
  • Nozzle is contaminated with dirt or dust. Can be solved with a careful cleaning or replacing the nozzle.
  • Filament is too large and jamming in the front end. Measure the filament diameter with a digital caliper and make sure it's not larger than 1.80mm. Feel along the filament for any bumps. Try a different roll of filament.
  • Filament has dust on the outside which is clogging the nozzle. Pass the filament through a sponge just before it goes into the feed mechanism to wipe off dust (also, give the nozzle a good cleaning).
  • Filament is contaminated with foreign material in the plastic itself. This rarely happens but has been known to be an occasional problem. Get a different roll of filament and clean your nozzle.
  • Too much back-force on the filament path. Check for binding by pulling filament by hand, it should pull smoothly. If it binds or catches at all, this is a manufacturing defect and should be covered by warranty.
  • Excessive heat buildup in the cool side of the extruder is causing filament to soften in the feed gear. This happens most often with PLA, but If your hot end isn't put together properly (heatsink missing or out of place, fan not working right, etc.) it could happen with ABS, too. If you're an expert user you can easily take apart and reassemble your extruder, but as a novice you probably don't want to do this. This is a manufacturing defect and would be covered under warranty.
  • Not enough clamping force between the feed gear and the bearing to properly grip the filament. If this component is out of spec it could cause filament to strip rather than feed; this would be a manufacturing defect and covered under warranty.
I'd contact support and see if they have other ideas. If you can eliminate the filament and environment related problems, then chances are you have a defective extruder and they should be able to swap it out for you.
Thanks for your advice.
I tried changing nozzles and cleaning my filament etc as you advised, however I honestly believe this issue is to do with the clamping force of the gear and bearing not being able to grip the filament adequately. I've stripped this extruder down about 30 times in the past few weeks, its become second nature on how to do it now, the heat sinks and and fan are all seated and working correctly. I think i need to contact support for this one =[

pp3dp.nl
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Holland/The Netherlands

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by pp3dp.nl » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:41 pm

It would be a coincidence but you never know: I had air printing because of the rainbow cable on the print head. After initializing the room temp of the nozzle was too high (like 45 degrees in stead of 21) so ABS would be extruded too cold. Also the temp varied when printing because of this.

So could you check with a cold machine what the temp is? And wiggle/push the cable a bit to see if it changes?

m_bergman
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:06 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by m_bergman » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:33 am

I recently had my Box suddenly stop extruding altogether. Support immediately told me to disassemble the head and check the end of the big white ribbon cable and check for a squash mark. Sure enough it was there, and caused two tracks in the cable to just touch. A manufacturing defect, by the look of it. One replacement cable later, machine works fine and has since done multiple 13 hr prints without difficulty.
I suspect this is also your problem.

As a side note, do several extrudes after changing spools to ensure the spool is turning freely - sometimes it seems to stick, with similar results. Once it's going, it seems to be all good.

okhrana
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:51 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by okhrana » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:19 am

Ok guys ive checked my rainbow cable and the white one and they both appear to be in tact. I put a brand new roll in and did a few extrudes, they seemed Smooth and consistent so i set up the same print I've been trying for the last two weeks, this time the rafting didn't even print. Im really thinking it is the gear on the motor.

Thanks so much for your advice though.

steelmans
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:18 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by steelmans » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:57 am

okhrana wrote:Ive had my up box for about a week now, I've completed 2 smaller prints and one larger 18 hour print before I started to run into problems. I loaded up another 18 hour print and it started fine. About two hours into the print it began to air print and no more filament was passing through the nozzle. I cancelled the print and cleaned out the extruder and nozzle. Ive also cleaned the gear with some acetone and a metal bristled brush.

I set up the print again and it begun like before, but soon was back to air printing. If i pause the print job I can extrude the filament perfectly.

Im really confused as to why it can extrude without hassle but doesnt complete the print. Am I doing something wrong or missing a step in the printing process? Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Okhrana, I had a similar problem and tried everything. Sorry that I haven't read this entire post but have you changed the nozzle for a new one? I kept cleaning them out and although it purged ok the problem persisted. I then put on a new nozzle and not had that problem since.

User avatar
Tiertime-Jason
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 4:31 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by Tiertime-Jason » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:45 am

Please contact support, if this is a defective machine, I think they will be happy to send you a new one.

User avatar
car3less
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:52 pm
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by car3less » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:27 am

Tiertime-Jason wrote:Please contact support, if this is a defective machine, I think they will be happy to send you a new one.
Really? On what planet? Because I would go there.
I received my Up Box in May. And since then it's been a disaster.

First, after only a week - 7 hour print. Stopped mid print and was printing in the air. My colleague tried to clean the nozzle and the nozzle was so weak it was broken.
I contact the supplier and they said I have to send the broken part back to get a new one. Which means time.. and my clients don't give me this time.
So I put the heater assembly in the garbage and bought a new one on my money.

After a while, nozzle overheat errors - stopped in the middle of the prints. Again.

I discussed with the support, followed the steps, But when one error is fixed another one appears. Until yesterday it printed according to its mood. One print ok for 2 or 3 failures.

Since yesterday, the nozzle is not heating anymore (37 degrees).
And I am really tired of this problems. No one replaced any defective machine. Just sending ribbons and giving us basic advice (for 7 months now).
I will pack Christmas presents with your ribbons. :D

steelmans
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:18 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by steelmans » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:56 am

I'm surprised that you haven't came to a solution yet. Although sometimes frustrating, I found UP support to work really hard to find solutions.

pp3dp.nl
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Holland/The Netherlands

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by pp3dp.nl » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:02 am

@car3less:

Maybe try to contact TierTime directly, I don't know if you have done that or only the Romanian reseller.. New Up Boxes should be better, they get updated all the time as have the Up Plus and Mini.

I too have had some struggles but mainly I have had a wonderful machine for some months now. When it works it really works well, I hope they can help you get a good machine you paid for and deserve.

Tiertime-Joseph
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:45 am

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by Tiertime-Joseph » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Hello Car3less,

Please send an email to support@pp3dp.com, and our technical team will help you out. If you have already done that, please let me know the issues that you have. My email is joseph.guo@pp3dp.com.

Thanks

Joseph

tibo
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:28 pm

Re: partial print then air print issue

Post by tibo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:31 pm

hello
i have the same problem with my UPBOX+
the post is old
but i want' to kwon if you have solve your problem and if Tiertime has help you

i don't know what to do : i have tested all the solution wich was write on this post

i need to print with my student and the printer don't wan't to print 100% with ABS
no problem with the first layer, but always come the problem after ...

thank's for your HELP!
Tibo

Post Reply