Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

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Numonic
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Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by Numonic » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:27 am

Ok everyone got a question to ask :). I'm getting ready to purchase the Up Mini soon and I've been reading that it has some issue with the bed not being stable and needing some paper support or some stl printed piece as a band aid fix in the mean time. Has this issue been fixed? If not when will it be fixed? Also I am going to print all the time so I would need a print surface that will give me the best quality prints I can get using this machine. Any suggestions anyone I need something really powerfull I can't afford to have my pieces warp as I'm going to print my action figures with this machine. :)

Second question I am going to print but I need something that is strong and flexable not brittle as I have parts that will need to snap on each other and I can't have it crack. Should I just go with the regular filament or the clear? I heard the clear was strong but I don't want it to be brittle. I need something to mimick the plastic injected material Takara Tomy, and or Hasbro uses for the transformers figures they make.
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Vulcan_UP3DPRINTERHELP.png
My action figure it's already fully functional and working with SLS. Going to purchase the Up Mini to continue the production for a more suitable action figure. The Up Mini is my choice for this project :)

This is the figure printed in SLS fully functional and ready to go :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ek7SqDgWFA
Vulcan_UP3DPRINTERHELP.png (187.66 KiB) Viewed 23061 times

roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:11 am

ABS plastic which the Up uses for its standard plastics has a bit of give and flexibility. I have made a number of snap together items over the last gear on various ABS FDM printers and I dont think you will have too much problem. First thing to be aware of is that if you don't use the genuine UP filament you wont get the absolutely brilliant support removal (really the only reason I bout an Up because I have a number of great reprap printers) that will make your parts much easy to print and use. I haven't seen any sign of there being a genuine Up clear filament. Secondly I have used two clear ABS plastics over the last 18 months and I have found both to be a little more brittle than coloured ABS that I've used so I'd steer clear of clear (no pun intended) for what you want.

On the bed issues of the Mini, it seems the intention is to fix this in software. Instead of using levelling screws to calibrate like on the Up Plus a new sofware update will allow us to map the surface heights in the Up software so that the software will actually map the print to the uneven plane. This is a nice solution, just a shame the softwaer didn't arrive with the Mini! So keep an eye on the Up! Software announcements for the fix. I haven't seen anyone mention any dates around when we will see it. You can get the beds even enough with tape and shims but yes it is really annoying and you can expect to waste a lot of your first spool of filament. I also suspect we will never be able to use glass/kapton beds if you want to print raftless due to the pathetic amount of heat the heated bed produces.

Finally, looking at what you want to print I think you will have less issues with warping and maybe it's worth considering an Up Plus for a few hundred more. I wish I had taken that option.

mr6k
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by mr6k » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:06 am

I agree with Roller,

My concern regarding the mini base level solution is that once calibrated for a tilted bed does the whole print now build at the same angle as the tilt, which should make the print correct, or, is a support layer printed as a wedge to compensate for the base tilt and then the model is printed truly on the X,Y,Z axis of the printer. If this is the case, for those not printing a removable support layer, the base of the printed model will be angled.

In terms of the strength of ABS, it is not brittle, but is quite strong. As examples it is used to make vehicle fenders, and if you want to test its strength buy some children's LEGO, which is ABS. I also agree with roller, the natural colored ABS seems to me to be the strongest.

cheers

Peter

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wackojacko
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by wackojacko » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:52 am

Our Crystal ABS (translucent ) is a high impact ABS so it is super strong and LEDs look super cool with it. It will be back in stock in about a week.

www.3DPrintingSystems.com
Bruce
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Numonic
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by Numonic » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:54 pm

Thanks for the help :) much appreciated, I originally wanted the Up but when the Up Plus came out I was surprised it's awesome. What attracted me even more was the Mini being that it has an enclosed area and I don't really want the vital parts of the machine exposed like that. I'll be doing alot of my work from home at least figure creation. Day job is another story I go to the office for that :) but at home is where I create my projects and it'll be so sweet to be able to have my prototypes created at home rather then send them to a outsource business and wait 7-10 days for delivery.
The Up mini has the nice resolution ability while having it covered and at a better price, before that I considered purchasing the Solidoodle 2 but saw the results and it was not suitable for my figures still really poor print quality. As for the clear High impact ABS plastic that would be great to use for areas that mimic windows and glass panels and such.

I have another question say I wanted to print the regular white and then stop and then use another material like the clear mentioned to print another piece in the same printing run. How will I go about doing that will pausing the machine work on the up Mini? How would I go about doing that as I'll probably get the white that comes with the up mini and purchase the clear stuff as well.

Does the up have the ability to print something similar to rubber? That would be awesome as well :)

Best

roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:31 pm

Numonic, yes you just pause the print and swap filament. Be aware you need to use the Windows version for this as the Mac version of the software is missing the pause (and some other) function.

Bruce, I am sure it might be high impact before being used in the Up but higher temps for low temp ABS seems to make them for brittle. I used higher temps on my repraps for the better appearance of the final prints but there was no question clear became more brittle and that clear also shows stressing (goes white and non-plastic deformation) more readily. But, Numonic I suggest you try clear because even if it doesnt work how you intend - it's a cool and interesting material to work with and i'm sure you'll find another use - just dont depend on it.

Clear PLA actually has better properties in terms of durability but I'm not sure you could mix them in the one print ... Can you reload to PLA settings mid print or are the temp settings part of the original slicing code?

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wackojacko
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by wackojacko » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:20 pm

Our translucent crystal material is formulated for the UP so it is super strong when printed at .15 and .2 on fine.

www.3DPrintingSystems.com
Bruce
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Numonic
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by Numonic » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:49 pm

This is very good news! I might get some when I purchase the UP Mini :)

roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:39 pm

Is that the same stuff Jamie sells? If so strong but not flexible ... after printing its rather more like PLA and a little prone to cracking in joints. Hence my previous post. I did cube gears with it and had to reprint the pins in white. Bruce, do you print the clear at full Up temp or with a temp mod?

Probably would be best to use a term less subjective than "strong". From an engineering point of view it is stiff and therefore less flexible and less willing to undergo plastic deformation. Numonic, check out how models like screwless cube gears and heart gears assemble with pins. Using such a strategy for your models you can mix any colours and materials you like and just use the most reliable/flexible plastics for the pins.
Last edited by roller on Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Macman
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by Macman » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:43 pm

The clear sounds very interesting, how does it perform as light pipe. i.e a printed component for transmission of an LED to a front console. Does the light travel better along the filaments than across them when illuminated. Do the ends of clear printed componets benefit from cutting back and polishing the ends as per acrylic components.

Hope my description makes sence, I have made components for microscopy to illuminate slides and subjects for macro photograpghy. Clear printed components could be very useful in these applications.

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wackojacko
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by wackojacko » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:29 am

All the filaments we sell are rated for the UP (so no mods are required). Julia on the forum loves our Crystal as it works really well with LEDs.

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Bruce
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roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:17 am

Bruce I wasn't suggesting it wasn't rated I was just asking because the temp affects the plastics behavior. In the reprap community where we have control of the temp, we will manipulate the temp not only for the print quality but also to vary the properties a little of the final product. At 270C the clear ABS I bought from 3D Printer Gear definitely doesn't seem as flexible as other ABS and any kind of pressure on it whitens it very quickly.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by JuliaDee » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Macman wrote:The clear sounds very interesting, how does it perform as light pipe. i.e a printed component for transmission of an LED to a front console. Does the light travel better along the filaments than across them when illuminated. Do the ends of clear printed componets benefit from cutting back and polishing the ends as per acrylic components.

Hope my description makes sence, I have made components for microscopy to illuminate slides and subjects for macro photograpghy. Clear printed components could be very useful in these applications.
The clear ABS, after being fused into a part, makes a pretty mediocre light pipe compared with a single piece of cast or injection-molded acrylic, urethane, or polycarbonate. That said, it makes a much better light pipe than white ABS. For a true light pipe you need "total internal reflection", which requires polished surfaces for light to bounce off of and back into/along the pipe. With an FDM'd part of clear acrylic you get about 90% diffusion and maybe 10% "conduction". Clear (natural) PLA is slightly better but still nothing like a cast piece. What I did recently on a project was to initially prototype it in clear ABS to get the general effect, then I sent it to a model shop, who for about $400, made an SLA part from my STL, then made a mold from that and cast the part in clear urethane and polished it. Came out way better than expectations.

julia

roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:14 pm

Slightly off topic but now you say that Julia I am wondering if it's possible to cast clear ABS parts by dissolving clear ABS in MEK. Wonder if anyone has tried - I suspect it probably clouds and becomes slightly opaque.

mr6k
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by mr6k » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:30 pm

Macman wrote,
"The clear sounds very interesting, how does it perform as light pipe".

Can I just add to Julia's explanation as to why ABS FDM printed does not make a particularly good light pipe. In addition to the total internal reflection required along its length a light pipe is also optically continuous along its length. With the UP printer not having a solid fill mode, if the pipe is of any reasonable cross section the UP will place a lattice work of material in place of solid material. This will attenuate the light over a very short distance due to the multiple internal walls blocking the flow of photons.

cheers

Pete

Macman
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by Macman » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:44 pm

Interesting point Pete, I didn't consider the fill issue. Had hoped the walls would transmit a fair amount of light... Shucks ;) back to the drawing board, heat gun and acrylic.

mechinnovation
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by mechinnovation » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Hi all, does anyone know if there's an option to pause automatically while printing, to allow for the insertion of a fixing, magnet or simply just for a colour change, or do you have to watch the printer and hope you don't miss your chance? Alternatevely is there a way to estimate when your chance will come, so you can set a timer on your phone or something to warn you that its nearly there?

mr6k
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by mr6k » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:02 pm

As far as I am aware, there is no auto pause. You need to eyeball the print happening and pause manually when you think you are at the right place. Also even when you hit pause there seems to be some buffering in the printer as it may snot stop instantly but carry on for a short period. I am not sure if this is just completing a layer before it pauses, as I have only used the function two or three times. There is no function in the software to pause the print and then restart after loading new material or another part. Although it would be great if it could.

cheers

Peter

pleppik
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by pleppik » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:08 pm

Just noticed that Afinia now sells clear and color changing filament. Haven't tried it yet, but I will.

roller
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Re: Filament Regular , Colored and Clear

Post by roller » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:20 am

I'd love to hear feedback on the colour changing stuff.

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