3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post improvements made for UP, and share ideas.
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stormychel
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3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:31 pm

EDIT : This mod lowers the stepper motor temperature by about 20 degrees celsius, which helps to avoid feeder strips. It works best with a REVERSED main fan, the one on the left, so it can extract heat from the heatsink, instead of blowing lukewarm enclosure air against it. The additional fans work best if blowing against the stepper, don't ask me why :). For most recent info, check the Thingiverse link : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:492030

Version 0.1 :

Just drew and printed this, looks great so far, need some minor adjustments and need to reinforce some weak points, but I think the next version will work.
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The idea is to keep the stepper motor cooler by adding a fan on the right side, there is just enough clearance to do this, and one on the front side which sucks hot air from the feeder tube area. I know that it could trigger warping, but as this is hot air, +-60 degrees, I don't think it will, and might even be beneficial to a uniform heat in the building case. A downside could be adding weight to the extruder, but I made it as light-weight as possible.

I ordered 2 40mm fans and some split connectors so I can wire this up together with the existing fan, which has a reversed flow on my printer by just turning it around. This sucks air from the heatsink, instead of blowing air against it...
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The mount has 1.5mm diameter pins (will try 2mm next) that fit into the fan's mounting holes. I hope a dot of hotmelt glue will keep them mounted.

Files are available here : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:492030
Last edited by stormychel on Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:22 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:28 pm

Added 2 fans and some wiring.
20141008_230656428_iOS.jpg
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stormychel
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:57 am

Version 0.2 :
Test printing with a very soft, horrible spool of white PLA. Hope it works this time...
20141009_080737972_iOS.jpg
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Last edited by stormychel on Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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stormychel
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:21 am

It worked. Last version reported on here is v0.2. I wont keep updating this AND the Thingiverse page, but will monitor replies and critisism here :)
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roller
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:48 am

Oh dear ... my temp mod is meant to clip on the front where that fan is ... I'm sure you would have modded the case straight away anyway.

Nice work on the fans though. How long was your PLA print? PLA only gets better with extra cooling during printing so adding some ducts to those extra fans so you can point them down during PLA prints may also help.

stormychel
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:15 am

roller wrote:Oh dear ... my temp mod is meant to clip on the front where that fan is ... I'm sure you would have modded the case straight away anyway.

Nice work on the fans though. How long was your PLA print? PLA only gets better with extra cooling during printing so adding some ducts to those extra fans so you can point them down during PLA prints may also help.
Hehe :) it's very hard to find a spot to fix something on the extruder head and still be able to reach all the cables etc... not to talk about the magnets getting in the way.

This is the temporary version, as I will also do this thumbwheel-controlled temperature mod like you have, and I will look for a way to put it on top of the fan assemblu, should not be too hard. Do you have a design file of your mod that I can see? Might be able to keep room for it, so people on here who have your mod, and want to try the fan mod don't have to fiddle around too much...

The print was a little over an hour, with PLA that normally fails after 5 minutes of printing, even from a cold start... I am now 3/4 into a 2-hour print with the same stuff, fingers crossed :)

Good idea on the ducts, I would probably need to find a way to be able close them too, to prevent ABS warping. Or maybe I can only make a duct for the right one, and make that fan switchable, as for ABS the stepper can be a little warmer before running into problems.
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:26 am

The 2h12m print in PLA finished succesfully with a stepper end temperature of 38* C. Without the fans this would have been around 60* C.

Succes :)
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:57 pm

If someone wants a complete kit, without the hassle of printing it yourself, mounting fans and cutting the wiring, I have ONE mod up for sale on eBay.

This includes the frame in ABS in black, white, blue or magenta, 2 12v fans, and 1 stock OEM 12v fan with altered wiring to feed the other 2 fans.
Everything is pre-wired so all you have to do is unscrew the stock fan, loosen the 2 allen bolts above it, clip the frame on, put the allen bolts back in, screw the new 'stock' fan on, and you are good to go.

This mod enables the printer to print PLA, without feeder stripping. It also helps with ABS that is prone to stripping.

I prefer you make your own, but this is just to help people out who want the mod fast and easy : http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/PP3DP-UP-Mi ... 378wt_1199

(the 40 degree drop comes from +- 20 degrees by reversing fan direction on the stock fan, and +- 20 degrees from the additional fans.)
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roller
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:01 pm

stormychel wrote:The 2h12m print in PLA finished succesfully with a stepper end temperature of 38* C. Without the fans this would have been around 60* C.

Succes :)
Just to be rigorous, you have had prints fail with this PLA before? I have high quality PLA that can be printed fine without any special cooling because it doesn't have a crappy low melt point. I actually haven't bothered with a permanent mod yet because I have that PLA and Colorfabb to use. I tried fans in a simialr arrangement and it didn't work on all prints (60min+ was about the typical failure) but I also have higher ambient temps to deal with.

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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:28 pm

roller wrote:
stormychel wrote:The 2h12m print in PLA finished succesfully with a stepper end temperature of 38* C. Without the fans this would have been around 60* C.

Succes :)
Just to be rigorous, you have had prints fail with this PLA before? I have high quality PLA that can be printed fine without any special cooling because it doesn't have a crappy low melt point. I actually haven't bothered with a permanent mod yet because I have that PLA and Colorfabb to use. I tried fans in a simialr arrangement and it didn't work on all prints (60min+ was about the typical failure) but I also have higher ambient temps to deal with.
The ambient temp is around 20 degrees now. Already did +3 hour prints now with it... very happy :)

I know about the Colorfabb, and it is probably worth every dollar, but I don't want to spend that much on filament, and want 100% freedom of choice in ABS and PLA colors, manufacturer and price range.

This PLA really totally never worked... ever :p Didn't expect it to either, it was the cheapest stuff I could find at 16.99 euros / kg :D . I also have it in black and this works better, have 80% success rate with just the stock fan, but with reversed flow.
About your fan experiment, did you try reversing the stock fan? This seems to be crucial to success... and I don't see why they made such a flaw in the design... that heatsink heat needs to be EXTRACTED! I guess they did it to be able to also use the fan to cool the PLA by opening the duct... at the cost of not effectively cooling the stepper motor... :s

Basically, I want the flexibility of a Reprap combined with easy to use software... and it seems I've come pretty close now! This printer is now 639 euros, say 699 with parts for the mods... and I know a lot of people who want one at that price :)
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roller
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:52 am

stormychel wrote: About your fan experiment, did you try reversing the stock fan?
No, and this may be the secret sauce that I overlooked.

I have come to like the Colorfabb for the fact it give me durability that is lacking from PLA. It is just less brittle. My biggest problem with PLA is every time I do long prints with it, I am overcome with cravings for hot cinnamon donuts... that smell of cooking corn syrup just has that effect for some reason.

stormychel
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:55 am

roller wrote:
stormychel wrote: About your fan experiment, did you try reversing the stock fan?
No, and this may be the secret sauce that I overlooked.

I have come to like the Colorfabb for the fact it give me durability that is lacking from PLA. It is just less brittle. My biggest problem with PLA is every time I do long prints with it, I am overcome with cravings for hot cinnamon donuts... that smell of cooking corn syrup just has that effect for some reason.
:D lol yes... the smell... Actually I like the smell of ABS better... at the correct printing temperature of course.

Does the Colorfabb stuff just work on a stock Mini? And is there more chance of warping because of the added HIPS?
How does it compare to the OEM filament?

I currently buy my filament from http://http://www.123inkt.nl , it's cheap and lower quality, although with the current mods I get nice prints with it. Only need to do the heater bed upgrade to 80° now to minimize warping on ABS, that is still an issue...
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roller
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:13 pm

Heat in the bed assists with adhesion more than warp ... it fights the warp by hold the model down but this is not ideal for larger, warp prone models. That's where you should be sealing up your Mini and getting the interior nice and toasty warm. Having a hotter bed will help hold the model down but having the interior warm will reduce the stresses overall and the need for good adhesion is reduced. I still think you need the 80C mod but if you are having problems with ABS in the interim, seal it up and even preheat the inside with a fan heater or hair dryer.

I can't compare Colorfabb to OEM PLA because I've never tried it. It should work as well on a Mini as an Up ... I often use it when the print is too prone to warping to use ABS. It seems to warp less than my other PLAs but I am not comparing prints on the same printers.

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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:28 pm

roller wrote:Heat in the bed assists with adhesion more than warp ... it fights the warp by hold the model down but this is not ideal for larger, warp prone models. That's where you should be sealing up your Mini and getting the interior nice and toasty warm. Having a hotter bed will help hold the model down but having the interior warm will reduce the stresses overall and the need for good adhesion is reduced. I still think you need the 80C mod but if you are having problems with ABS in the interim, seal it up and even preheat the inside with a fan heater or hair dryer.

I can't compare Colorfabb to OEM PLA because I've never tried it. It should work as well on a Mini as an Up ... I often use it when the print is too prone to warping to use ABS. It seems to warp less than my other PLAs but I am not comparing prints on the same printers.
Next time I need a specific color in PLA I will buy a Colorfabb one. If I need white I'll take a PP3DP one. Just to be able to make comparisons between cheap, pp3dp & colorfabb. In ABS I already have pp3dp ABS to compare with the cheap stuff, always good to have a reference known-good spool to troubleshoot.

About the warping, sealing the case will probablt get me in trouble with filament stripping again I guess... we'll see...
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:30 pm

Sealing is just for ABS - it shouldn't strip. PLA tend to strip not just because it tends to bend due to heat but also because it is so brittle.

ABS needs heat to cool slowly and limit warping. PLA needs cooling to help it harden and reduce sagging.

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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:57 pm

roller wrote:Sealing is just for ABS - it shouldn't strip. PLA tend to strip not just because it tends to bend due to heat but also because it is so brittle.

ABS needs heat to cool slowly and limit warping. PLA needs cooling to help it harden and reduce sagging.
The cheap ABS I use also stripped when the stepper was too hot... :)

Just as a matter of test I am 90% in a PLA print now with EVERYTHING CLOSED.

Stepper is around 45 degrees (about the same as the other one bottom left), seems like the added circulation from the 2 extra fans + the reversed fan seems to keep it cool enough. There is heat coming out of the opening of the top door, seems like we have good circulation here. Of course my PLA will look awful, but it's a copy of something I printed earlier today with open top door, and I want to compare if they look the same... Didn't expect it to print for more than 15 minutes before stripping though...
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by stormychel » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:02 pm

Update on the above print, came up with exactly the same surface finish as the first one, curves rounded as they should, measurements 100% identical...

3 fans FTW :D
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roller
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by roller » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:50 am

The cheap ABS I use also stripped when the stepper was too hot... :)
The biggest issue with cheap ABS is usually size consistency and junk in the filament ... I bet it was stuck on an oversized but for a will to get a chunk stripped out of it. Could also have been undersized allowing the gear to slip on the surface rather than bite. PLA can strip just from the jams you gets if your first layer is too low.

ABS tends to hold the gear and cause the extruder to miss steps (on an UP) where PLA will just grind away. On my brutstruder (reprap) any jam will result in and filament getting shredded provided the housing doesn't crack. One day I'll redesign an up extruder to be more like the brutstruder.

Danny
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Re: 3-fan extruder mount for UP! Mini

Post by Danny » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:28 am

Hi,

I've bought an up mini and have big problems to print PLA.
Can anyone please upload the 3-Fan Mod file again?
Uploaded or another filehoster.

Sorry for my bad english.

Many Thanks, Daniel

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