Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

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iomega
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by iomega » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm

Eurisko84 wrote: I'm running the new version with the very hot motor too. The air feed line on the top is designed to take a silicon tube and to be connected to a cheap air pump for a fish tank (see below).

Its less than 20 bucks, and the silicon hose is flexible and can be routed around the machine. This will provide a constant stream of air that cools the gear head directly.

Couple that with a few passive heat sinks (ram heat sinks are small enough to mount on the servo directly) and you have a cool motor that wont be hot enough to soften the PLA before it gets to the heater element.
Yes, I neglected to mention that I've got heatsinks and a large 50mm fan cooling the exterior of the motor. That did wonders for cooling the housing of the motor! (I can now comfortably touch the motor, whereas before, it was extremely hot). But that's just the exterior of the motor, not the shaft/gear head--which would need direct air. I did recently try out a fish tank air pump, but at best that simply kept the print going for another few layers before choking off. The volume of air-flow from that pump was probably key.

I'm planning on designing a funnel to direct air flow from a dedicated 40mm fan to the gear head. Wondering how well that concept may work. This is not unlike the mini fan used by odiegel, but hopefully with much more flow.

Eurisko84
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:56 am

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by Eurisko84 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:54 pm

iomega wrote:
Eurisko84 wrote: I'm running the new version with the very hot motor too. The air feed line on the top is designed to take a silicon tube and to be connected to a cheap air pump for a fish tank (see below).

Its less than 20 bucks, and the silicon hose is flexible and can be routed around the machine. This will provide a constant stream of air that cools the gear head directly.

Couple that with a few passive heat sinks (ram heat sinks are small enough to mount on the servo directly) and you have a cool motor that wont be hot enough to soften the PLA before it gets to the heater element.
Yes, I neglected to mention that I've got heatsinks and a large 50mm fan cooling the exterior of the motor. That did wonders for cooling the housing of the motor! (I can now comfortably touch the motor, whereas before, it was extremely hot). But that's just the exterior of the motor, not the shaft/gear head--which would need direct air. I did recently try out a fish tank air pump, but at best that simply kept the print going for another few layers before choking off. The volume of air-flow from that pump was probably key.

I'm planning on designing a funnel to direct air flow from a dedicated 40mm fan to the gear head. Wondering how well that concept may work. This is not unlike the mini fan used by odiegel, but hopefully with much more flow.

My key concern with using another fan is the increase of mass (and hence inertia) of the system. Once you start coupling more and more (you already have a 50mm fan and some heatsinks) mass onto the head, the servo will have to work harder and harder to try to reach target points without overshooting. This will decrease the accuracy (especially on very fine parts) and the life of the servo in the long run. The reason I like the air pump is the mass is very very small and provides direct flow to the area affected (gear).

I currently have the above model air pump, and you are correct, I initially had a single outlet pump and that airflow was insufficient to cool the nozzle. A dual outlet pump is the minimum I would recommend.

Let me know how you go mate.

Cheers,
Eddie

D3rax
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by D3rax » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:00 pm

Would a 120 mm fan apply enough airpressure/air flow to puh air through a short hose into the air feed line on top of the extruder? To connect the hose to the fan you could print an adpter.
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D3rax
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by D3rax » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:42 am

iomega wrote:
Eurisko84 wrote: I'm running the new version with the very hot motor too. The air feed line on the top is designed to take a silicon tube and to be connected to a cheap air pump for a fish tank (see below).

Its less than 20 bucks, and the silicon hose is flexible and can be routed around the machine. This will provide a constant stream of air that cools the gear head directly.

Couple that with a few passive heat sinks (ram heat sinks are small enough to mount on the servo directly) and you have a cool motor that wont be hot enough to soften the PLA before it gets to the heater element.
Yes, I neglected to mention that I've got heatsinks and a large 50mm fan cooling the exterior of the motor. That did wonders for cooling the housing of the motor! (I can now comfortably touch the motor, whereas before, it was extremely hot). But that's just the exterior of the motor, not the shaft/gear head--which would need direct air. I did recently try out a fish tank air pump, but at best that simply kept the print going for another few layers before choking off. The volume of air-flow from that pump was probably key.

I'm planning on designing a funnel to direct air flow from a dedicated 40mm fan to the gear head. Wondering how well that concept may work. This is not unlike the mini fan used by odiegel, but hopefully with much more flow.
Hi Iomega, did you have give your design your mentioned above a try? I wonder what your results are.
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pleppik
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by pleppik » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:39 pm

D3rax wrote:Would a 120 mm fan apply enough airpressure/air flow to puh air through a short hose into the air feed line on top of the extruder? To connect the hose to the fan you could print an adpter.
Actually, the stock fan on the heatsink provides plenty of airflow to cool both the heatsink and the extruder, as long as the air is directed properly.

I have a design which I'm still tweaking, but has about 20 hours of PLA printing and 100 hours of ABS with no problems. Once I have it a little more finalized I'll post it. Sorry for the tease.

D3rax
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by D3rax » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:22 pm

Ok that sounds good :).

Today I wanted to print and install Eurisko84's extruder design to exploit the penclip mod. Im unable to print PLA because the stepper gear keeps slipping. But I ran into a problem, I noticed that the setup of my extruder head is different from the pictures I see in this forum and also on the other penclp mods on thingiverse.

The main differences are:
-My fan is bollted to the "main" extruder base that holds the motor and not to the windbarrier
-I have a much smaller heatsink behind the fan
-The windbarrier does not connect to the heatsink but is bolted to the "main" extruder base

I dont think I can use Eurisko's extruder design, because im not able to connect the fan an the windbarriere to it. Or am I wrong?

I have my up plus for 8 weeks now. Does anyone know if the extruder design has changed and if theres a penclip mod for this new type of extruder?

Other wise i will try and design a new one, I do hope I get the exact place of the penclip right though.....
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richievos
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:53 am

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by richievos » Mon May 27, 2013 3:21 am

D3rax wrote:Today I wanted to print and install Eurisko84's extruder design to exploit the penclip mod. Im unable to print PLA because the stepper gear keeps slipping. But I ran into a problem, I noticed that the setup of my extruder head is different from the pictures I see in this forum and also on the other penclp mods on thingiverse.

The main differences are:
-My fan is bollted to the "main" extruder base that holds the motor and not to the windbarrier
-I have a much smaller heatsink behind the fan
-The windbarrier does not connect to the heatsink but is bolted to the "main" extruder base

I dont think I can use Eurisko's extruder design, because im not able to connect the fan an the windbarriere to it. Or am I wrong?

I have my up plus for 8 weeks now. Does anyone know if the extruder design has changed and if theres a penclip mod for this new type of extruder?
I have the same issue with the penclip mods. I don't have a way to attach a fan like these mods assume. I was thinking of trying to start installing the old versions of the software, and try and harvest the old part models from there (I'm guessing they live in there somewhere). For now I'm just pretending I don't have a roll of PLA sitting there. Otherwise I try using it, despite knowing it will fail 30 minutes in and make me angry.

iomega
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by iomega » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:11 am

D3rax wrote:
iomega wrote:
Yes, I neglected to mention that I've got heatsinks and a large 50mm fan cooling the exterior of the motor. That did wonders for cooling the housing of the motor! (I can now comfortably touch the motor, whereas before, it was extremely hot). But that's just the exterior of the motor, not the shaft/gear head--which would need direct air. I did recently try out a fish tank air pump, but at best that simply kept the print going for another few layers before choking off. The volume of air-flow from that pump was probably key.

I'm planning on designing a funnel to direct air flow from a dedicated 40mm fan to the gear head. Wondering how well that concept may work. This is not unlike the mini fan used by odiegel, but hopefully with much more flow.
Hi Iomega, did you have give your design your mentioned above a try? I wonder what your results are.
D3rax,

Sorry for the late reply (I haven't been on this forum for months). But for the sake of anyone wondering about the cooling techniques, the funnel concepts just will not work with these PC type fans. They're designed for moving larger volumes of air at low pressures, so not much air goes through the funnel.

However, I've since been able to print with PLA just fine using a combination of a high-flow fish-tank pump (7.8 L/min) and a custom designed spring-loaded ball-bearing "pusher" to hold the filament against the extruder gear. The pump directs air right at the extruder gear. I had tried other fish-tank pumps (rated for less air) and they weren't able to keep the gear from slipping after more than 15 mins. I also have heat sinks and a dedicated fan to cool the exterior of the stepper motor.

nutcrapper
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:32 pm

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by nutcrapper » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:18 pm

D3rax wrote:Ok that sounds good :).

Today I wanted to print and install Eurisko84's extruder design to exploit the penclip mod. Im unable to print PLA because the stepper gear keeps slipping. But I ran into a problem, I noticed that the setup of my extruder head is different from the pictures I see in this forum and also on the other penclp mods on thingiverse.

The main differences are:
-My fan is bollted to the "main" extruder base that holds the motor and not to the windbarrier
-I have a much smaller heatsink behind the fan
-The windbarrier does not connect to the heatsink but is bolted to the "main" extruder base

I dont think I can use Eurisko's extruder design, because im not able to connect the fan an the windbarriere to it. Or am I wrong?

I have my up plus for 8 weeks now. Does anyone know if the extruder design has changed and if theres a penclip mod for this new type of extruder?

Other wise i will try and design a new one, I do hope I get the exact place of the penclip right though.....
Did you ever redesign one for your heatsink? I know this is an old thread but nothing i can find helps with the extruder gear melting the pla :(

D3rax
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Customised extruder feeder design *No Moving Parts*

Post by D3rax » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:59 am

Last year I did try the clip mod (don't think i have a stl of the redesign), but it did not work for me. Also have tried cooling mods for the stepper motor, but the motor keeps getting to hot. You could check out this thread http://pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=54310, may be this could lead to something....it's just a concept though, don't really know if its worth a try?
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