OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Share your experience with UP300!
Post Reply
Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:58 pm

Hi folks.

As per the title, please speak up if you're one of the first adopters of the UP300 and tell us how you're finding it.

Cheers,

Owen S.

jros
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:32 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by jros » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:28 am

Hi everyone, yeah we are all wanting to know how these units are ,there has been very little on this product and I'm about to order anything that there is very little reviews on .It has been very poor on behalf of all involved but I hope they address all the problems that we have had with the upbox+ . Just gets very frustrated with the small problems that 3d printers have atm .

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:29 pm

Yes this was my concern, is it just the breaktastic UPBOX parts in a new case, or is this a new printer with lessons learned from the previous models included in the form of upgraded and redesigned parts where required?
Owen S.

BigE79
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:18 pm

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by BigE79 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:36 pm

I have one, just running the first print. So far no problems but time will tell.
The software update on the LCD worked well and the auto-calibration was easy. Wifi connection etc was no problem. Just printing the model calibration and it's sticking to the build plate well with no adjustment by me to the calibration values.

I'm an experienced 3D printer but not familiar with TierTime machines. My last machine was a Mankati XT which is much more manual everything but I was able to print very well in ABS without any warping (eventually).
I have allot of 3mm filament I can't use now :)

Printing in ABS now and I can't smell anything so that's good, I guess the case sealing is okay and the filters are doing their job.

I'll keep everyone posted on the outcomes, I have 6 rolls of ABS+ to try out, also want to try out some PC filaments.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:41 am

@BigE79

That's great news, thanks for taking the time to tell us. Looking forward to hearing more on these machines.

Thanks,

Owen S.

BigE79
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:18 pm

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by BigE79 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:13 am

So I've done a few prints now on the UP300.
I've had an issue with the Calibration switch hitting the extruder motor. I've fixed this now by printing some new fan brackets. Details are here if you're interested: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=56492&sid=93283084 ... 4b37715450

Aside from that the print quality and usability has been excellent. I've been printing in ABS and ABS+ but only on the perf board. I haven't tried any of the other surfaces yet. Attached is a photo of a recent print in ABS+ 0.1mm layer height. The quality is great and you can hardly see the layer lines.
The machine has been super easy to use, really set and forget. So far I've actually had 100% success rate printing (out of maybe 15 prints), this is pretty amazing as I'm still getting used to the machine. Strength of the parts seems good too, I printed the calibration model in ABS and it took almost all my strength to break one of the vertical sections and I only printed with 20% fill.
The LCD display is nice and gives you a time to finished and progress bar etc. Also easy to initialize and calibration the machine through the screen but I'm doing most things just through UP Studio.

Some things I'm not too sure of yet:
- Not sure how well the machine calibration works. They claim 0.1mm / 100mm accuracy but I don't seem to be quite getting this. I've tried a manual XYZ calibration now and I see how that goes. The interface for the model calibration seems a bit off, If I put in the vertical calibration values for X1 and X2 the vertical calibration number shows '0' so I'm not sure it's doing anything.
- They say the machine can do 0.05mm layer height but I can't set this in UP studio, there's no option for it.
- The machine can do 1Kg rolls but I can't seem to purchase these anywhere except for black or white colours.
- Sometimes when starting up studio it can't find the machine. I need to select it twice from the drop down box and then it's connected. I am running the beta version however.


IMAG1895.jpg
Saber-Tooth Skull.
IMAG1895.jpg (407.35 KiB) Viewed 3805 times

BigE79
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:18 pm

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by BigE79 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:31 am

BTW: I think this thread is in the wrong section as it's under "Support", not "General Discussion".
I don't know if someone can move it?

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:02 pm

Wow, that's a nice print.

Did you print 0.1mm layers with a standard 0.4 nozzle or did you use a smaller one? On the Upbox unless the part was tiny I had very little luck at 0.1mm so seeing this good a print is encouraging :D

Thanks for the update, this is helping inform a decision.

Cheers,

Owen S.

BigE79
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:18 pm

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by BigE79 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:34 pm

Yep, That was printed 0.1mm layer height with the 0.4mm nozzle. The skull without the sabers is about 74 x 100 x 120 mm.
The main skull took about 18hours using "normal" quality and 65% infill. The Sabers took 2 hours with the same settings.
Model link is here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:472463

cj7hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:52 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by cj7hawk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:03 am

My first thought is that it's still very primitive in terms of support. The fan holding bracket on the feed servo is way too thin ( mine was broken on delivery ) and the instructions are less helpful than they should be given that the software is way too automated and as a result, I couldn't use the ethernet interface at all.

The print quality was OK, but the interaction of the head was poor, meaning that it always draws a thread from the nozzle on completion and there's always a big daggy string left somewhere on the model ( or melting to the print head ) at the start.

Turbo speed wasn't super-fast, but the quality of the brief test item was good. Enough that I want to try something bigger - especially since the quality was quite good - but there seems to be some issues with the nozzle that affect the finish at the start point and subsequent model start points.

I think UP studio really is stuff for kids though, and I was one of the people who never upgraded from the original UP software as I always felt UP Studio really wasn't all that well designed. Now that the printers are moving into the professional market, I think that's a problem that Tiertime need to resolve in the long term.

I did eventually figure out that I needed to update the touchscreen software to read the USB stick, but it still doesn't read STL or UP3 files :( I'm guessing that this is something that will be needed into the future. As will a basic graphical touchscreen representation of the model shape and position on the tray.

Overall, it feels like Tiertime shipped the UP3 before it was ready, software-wise... I hope these changes will be coming soon.

David

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:38 am

@cj7hawk,

Thanks for the information, that was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I appreciate you taking the time to post it.

Cheers,
Owen S.

cj7hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:52 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by cj7hawk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:59 am

Happy to help - There's one other negative I should point out, one that Tiertime can't fix on this model - The power switch is in the recessed cable area.

Think about this carefully. The power switch is at the back of a 40Kg machine, that is too big for most desks, and looks designed to fit on most floors under the desk or to the side. The back is flush, and doesn't require airflow, and neither does the left side. The top requires some clearance for changing the filament, even if you're sitting on the floor with a printer under a desk, but there's just enough space under most high desks for this. A low desk will be a problem.

BUT, the power switch is not only BEHIND, it's on the LEFT side, and worse, It's recessed, so you can't reach around the back and flip it. It's towards the middle, so you really need to crawl behind it on the right side ( due to switch placement ) and extend your arm behind the machine.

As restarting the machine is a requirement and times, you will need to leave the switch turned on, and power up via a mains switchboard with individual switches, which will cause additional stress on the PSU.

The front, of course, requires clearance and the right side requires clearance to install the filament. It will take standard size rolls, but the axle is too small and has a hard metal insert to keep the roll on which isn't compatible with other filament rolls. As such, you're going to need to install and print your own axle extender, though the design does lend itself to this and it shouldn't be too difficult. I'm seriously thinking about installing a small air heater and blower in mine to warm the filament prior to printing to both remove moisture ( ABS can absorb up to 20% more weight by water just from normal humidity - An experiment I did a few years ago with an autoclave ) and of course, it doesn't seal, so forget dessicant. Either would have been a nice idea though and are open to home experimentation.

On the good side, it feels pretty solid. The lighting while building is good, and works well. I came from the Mini ( original ) so I'm expecting more from the 100 micron and better prints. Mainly I want to print 32 tpi threads and perhaps even 40 tpi threads. ( about 0.8mm and 0.6mm )

The internal structure is plastic. I did check carefully since it looked die cast, but it's just injection moulded plastic though it does seem very well made. Rigidity is good - And the head is bolted to the frame.

It has a normal RC servo on the head - The plastic gear type that often develops accuracy problems over time, so expect that to break at some point.

I liked the filament guide though - I thought that was a big improvement. It's quite quiet too.

But I'm starting to think they haven't added the ethernet capability to the firmware yet. It doesn't even bring up the link light ( I even tested the cable and made a new Cat6 cable ) and I can't connect to it via Wifi even though it gets an IP address.

That said, would I buy it again? Yes. I think These problems will be dealt with - though I fear some of it might take up to a year based on previous performance levels, but Tiertime has a good reputation, even with the older models like the mini. They've demonstrated good support in the past, which along with solid reliable function, is why I have stuck with them even though most other models in this price range are two-head for using water-soluble filament. But I'm really hoping that they don't skip out on the dual head which was announced some time ago.

One other thing that will be needed - which is worthwhile - They need to sell a customizable head so we can set one up for custom filaments. And with Stainless or Brass tips, though that much can be bought aftermarket.

David.

cj7hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:52 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by cj7hawk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:40 pm

Add one more major fault, making me wonder if Tiertime knows what a Beta program is... Ethernet socket tab is one the inside. So once it's plugged it, there's no way to get it out again, without removing the entire printer ( to gain access ) and then sliding something behind the tab to press it while gently wiggling and tugging... MAJOR design flaw.

Well, my ethernet is definitely not working... Given that was one of the reasons I bought it, that's not good. I'll check with the seller in the morning and see whether his ethernet works.

Tiertime-Joseph
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:45 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Tiertime-Joseph » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:02 pm

Hey David,

Good to hear all these comments, and definitely will help us make the better design for the upgrade and other products coming up.

Please keep them coming.

Best regards

Joseph

cj7hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:52 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by cj7hawk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:29 am

Now I've gotten a little further into it, I can offer a deeper perspective.

First, the final negative. It needs wheels. Seriously. Four small casters as optional replacements for the rubber feet it sits on. The reason for this is that the model size makes it very difficult to sit on a desk, but the canted display and large access panels do work well when the model is operated from the floor. Having some small wheels would allow me to push it under the desk and bring it forward when I need to access the rear panel, or I want better visibility of the screen. So at some point, I will have to print up a set.

I ran my first complex print last night. It wasn't even good filament - just leftover rubbish that I was going to discard or give to a friend to test his printer - but it saved cracking open a new box of the good stuff and at first I only intended to print a little of the model, but as it progressed and I realized I had enough filament, I decided to let it run. That's a big leap of faith for me.

I ran the print overnight at 100 micron steps, and fine setting, with the fan door open, and left it to run. Despite the Mini's excellent reputation, this was something I was never confident to try with the mini.

And the result?

It did what it was supposed to. The threads look crisp and sharp, printed at 30tpi and even 40 tpi - that means a thread height of just .635mm - TINY threads... But they came out well formed and looking strong. Bonding on the highest infill setting was excellent, and after copious quantities of stick glue were applied to the glass, the ABS part just popped straight off.

The model was held by a single ring of plastic, about 36mm in diameter, and was just 1mm in thickness and around 0.5mm thick at the join, but the model came out well and didn't move or lift anywhere for the duration of the print.

Operation was smooth and quiet, though there was a very faint audible clicking over the servos, which I think was the extruder operating - It made a regular patterned sound that didn't seem to change much over the time of the print.

I never got to try the "out of filament" detector.

The model came out clean and without defects ( despite the very water-logged plastic I fed it... ) and best of all, without the artifacts caused by harmonic oscillation of the print-head and the tray as was always present on the MINI, even on the slowest setting. This had the unique result of making the faces of the model quite visible, and while they've been visible before on printers, they've never looked so diamond-cut sharp! Each face visible and clean with a clear edge - That's a problem I'm going to have look into since I've never had to deal with such a clean model previously when I was printing at a best of 0.2mm.

Aside from the excellent thread reproduction, there were no errors in the printer from reading the instructions from the slicer, and very little ( negligible ) stringiness with almost no abs fine filaments suspended between open areas.

There doesn't appear to be any distortion in the model - critical when printing threads on the scale of 38mm dia x 0.635mm thread spacing - And the print surface is so clean, I can see regular banding that matches the cadence of the extruder - Think about that for a moment... The extruder is never completely linear in operation - it has very slight surges and lulls, and these normally aren't eve noticeable. However on large round sections of regular shape, I can see a repeating pattern every 4.6mm or so... The surfaces really are that clean.

Of course, the downside of such clean surfaces is that they will demonstrate mechanical damage pretty easily - just like you see scratches on clean glass, but this isn't really a problem. Well, it was never a problem before the quality of the finish was good enough to make it a problem.

Repeat-ability of the print head position then looks excellent and I'm happy with the model. I bought the UP300 as the upgrade to my Mini so I could produce 3D parts to sell print-to-manufacture concepts and from the final quality I have no complaints. Upper surfaces are still the same and have the large scale criss-cross patterns from the head's final pass, giving them a kind of cross-hatch quality, but generally the print is sharp and clean, and I have no complaints on the quality.

Usually, it takes me a little while to get good results on something like this - but I'm happy with the initial results without requiring more. The extra build size will be perfect for larger models and I'm finally confident with this model to leave larger prints that might take a day or two, whereas previously I would simply avoid prints that took longer than 8 hours, and make several smaller prints and join them.

If anyone is interested, I'll take some detailed photographs of the structural elements of the UP300. Rigidity of the build platform doesn't seem to be a problem, and I don't think model weight will cause issues. The UP300 ( and probably the UPX5 ) really feel like UP has moved from the home and small office environment into commercial production hardware. Now would be a great time to branch UPStudio into a commercial package with less of a tablet-software feel and into something that fits the whole CAD/CAM environment. I'm sure both applications can run off of a common base, so we're mostly talking skinning here, and savable presets for different materials, so we can reload a common preset we've developed, rather than just having whatever was selected last as the common default, especially with the new support for additional filaments.

But even that much is nitpicking a little. The end result is it functions as it should even if there are quirks along the way - that is to say, if what you want to print is a 3D model, then that is what it does, and it does it well.

Jumping onto a product on pre-order means you take the product as-is and anything else you get later is a bonus. I don't regret pre-ordering the UP300, and I feel as though I got my value from it - this much might seem strange now - after all, the Tiertime UP printer ( original ) is the most copied 3D printer design in the world, and you can buy clones for a few hundred dollars now, but I still see people with all kinds of problems caused by everything from setting errors to physical weaknesses of the printer. Most people say a 50% success rate is good. The Mini had a better than 70% success rate stock, and with a few modifications such as a heated bed, this jumped up to better than 90%.

I'm expecting better still from the UP300 - well above 95% though time will tell. I just want to design and print, and know that the prints will come out strong and reliable and I won't have to change them... I still have a few months of testing ahead of me to really understand it's strengths and limitations, but one factor from my first major print still sits with me.

I just plucked it up off of the cooled glass bed.

Just like that... No scraping, no cutting, no difficulties. And the raft material further up the model ( it was printed raftless on the glass ) all came away with fingernails and a little pulling from small, flat, pliers. Except larger sections which still need to be levered away with a blade for best results.

So what do I think of it? Well, you've had all of the negatives I noticed, and these are my thoughts now I've gotten to the end of the first-print process. I'm still happy.

And if I could go back a few months, I'd definitely buy it again.

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:31 am

Hi All.

To my mind it needs a bespoke trolley as an optional extra.

Advantages:-
(a) More revenue for TT
(b) It'll present the printer at the appropriate height for operation
(c) It'll have wheels
(d) It'll match the aesthetic of the rest of the machine, thus looking more professional for an industrial printer.
(e) Most importantly it could include airtight filament holders in a front loading drawer. Needing access to 4 sides of a cube is bonkers! (5 on the X5!)

Take inspiration from your competition:-

Markforged Stand
MF Stand.jpg
MF Stand.jpg (57.37 KiB) Viewed 3587 times
Now that's something you want in your office when showing customers around!

Stratasys Machine
Strat Whole.jpeg
Strat Whole.jpeg (6.89 KiB) Viewed 3587 times
Stratasys Filament Drawer
Stra Drawer.jpg
Stra Drawer.jpg (24.42 KiB) Viewed 3587 times
4 Different filament types easily available and kept dry.

Cheers,

Owen S.

cj7hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:52 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by cj7hawk » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:34 am

Hi Owen,

That's a very good idea - An optional metal stand where you can store filament or even upgrade to hold multiple rolls of filament in the future...

I like it lower down though... But I can still see how in other situations, having it on a stand would be helpful.

David

Owen Sparks aka Marksman
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 am

Re: OK, who's got one and what do you think of it?

Post by Owen Sparks aka Marksman » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:14 am

Thanks David.

For folks not familiar with the Stratasys machine, and at the risk of stating the obvious, those 4 filament containers are not just storage holders. They have a feed mechanism so you tell it what material is in each location and then just say "Print in Red ABS" and it will select the correct filament itself and feed it to one of the print heads.

In a time where there are so many printers to chose from (and they're all pretty much just just 4 stepper motors and a hot glue gun) a company needs some features like those above to stand out from the crowd.

Cheers,
Owen S.

Post Reply