Suggestions for printing big model

How print better models
TTT험ทดสอบ
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Suggestions for printing big model

Post by TTT험ทดสอบ » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:33 pm

Hi UPers,

A few suggestion for printing big model:
1. Preheat for over 15 mins.
2. Only print one model.
3. Use higher layerthick, such ase 0.3mm or 0.35mm.
4. Clean and repaint the platform.
5. Confirm the platform is level. The gaps between nozzle and extruder should be same at five position(NL, NR, FL, FR,Center ). Adjust the 3 screws under platform heater to get the same gaps.
6. Increasing nozzle height. If the nozzle height is 138.0, adjust it to 138.1 or 138.2. With Larger nozzle height, the base support stick with platform firmly.
7. Select suitable print orientation.

Darkhouse

quarksurfer
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by quarksurfer » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:09 pm

we should use this thread to combine all of the suggestions for getting high resolution big prints, so that we can figure this out together.
brcjackson is trying springs under the heating unit to help finely tune the platform height, whereas teamUSA suggested kapton tape. printing on thin acrylic was suggested by olaf, we should definitely try this, maybe it could be preheated separately and sanded finely...

quarksurfer
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by quarksurfer » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:35 am

I followed these steps and was able to yield really large, high-resolution prints :D
I'll post some pics to the models section soon. It seemed really important to calibrate the height of each corner (mine was almost perfect to start) of the bed. Preheat for 15 min after it reached over 105, and then just choose the best printing orientation. Also I used the extruder itself to measure 0.2mm from the bed, before I was closer to 0.3 or 0.35.

-soapy-
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by -soapy- » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:30 pm

qs, did you simply "crash" the head, then back it off to get the distance?

I found that a sheet of A4 doubled over measured 0.21mm on my callipers, so I used that to set the height.

I haven't yet checked the platform alignment in the corners. Shall do that once I've moved it to it's final location.

rross
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by rross » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:22 pm

Greetings,
First post here. I've had my UP! for two weeks now and found a good solution to the warping/curling which hasn't failed yet (I tried the paint and blue painters tape with mixed results).
I've put down a layer of vero-board. It is a PCB with many small holes 2.54mm apart. Once the UP puts down the starting layer some of the layer gets trapped in the holes of the board and doesn't come out. When you lift the model out about 80% come out cleanly which leaves a few filled with ABS. This can be cleaned out using a pin. I've been printing 2 days solid and havn't had any warping and haven't had to do any cleaning yet.
Rob
Image
Image

TeamTeamUSA
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by TeamTeamUSA » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:24 am

rross wrote:Greetings,
First post here. I've had my UP! for two weeks now and found a good solution to the warping/curling which hasn't failed yet (I tried the paint and blue painters tape with mixed results).
I've put down a layer of vero-board. It is a PCB with many small holes 2.54mm apart. Once the UP puts down the starting layer some of the layer gets trapped in the holes of the board and doesn't come out. When you lift the model out about 80% come out cleanly which leaves a few filled with ABS. This can be cleaned out using a pin. I've been printing 2 days solid and havn't had any warping and haven't had to do any cleaning yet.
Rob
Sweet! :)

No Vero-board on this side of the pond, but I did find this: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... =B3427D-ND; looks to be similar. Might need to buy two and cut one down to cover the entire build area.

Gonna add it to my next DigiKey order.

Go!

=ml=
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Madox
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by Madox » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:20 am

I like your inventive use of veroboard/prototyping board :)

Might give it a go, i only have unetched pcb... but might drill a lot of holes in it to make it 'sticky'.

Chris.e
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by Chris.e » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:38 am

I like that veroboard thing! :) thanks

trebuchet03
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by trebuchet03 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Clever.... The first few layers are closer to the platform to get that squished effect - all those holes make for awesome grip :)
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changfrancis
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by changfrancis » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:02 pm

can I ask when you use the velo board. Did you turn on the heated bed ?

heated bed + velo board (what is the temperature ~100C ?)

or

velo board only

Thanks in advance :D

rross
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by rross » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:39 am

Yes it was veroboard with the heated bed. I haven't tried it without heating the bed yet.
Oh and one more thing, I have found it much easier to remove parts when the bed has cooled down for about 15 minutes - they come out quite easily compared to very difficult when it is still hot

ssozonoff
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by ssozonoff » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:11 pm

Along the same lines of providing a non smooth surface for the ABS to adhere too, what about laying down some 80grit sandpaper on the platform? Anyone tried sand paper?

Serge

William
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by William » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:56 pm

I tried with 600 grit. It did not work as well as the painters tape. Acrylic conformal coating has worked the best for me.

-soapy-
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by -soapy- » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Now that is an inspired idea! It's even copper clad which will spread the heat better than the regular aluminium. How are you attaching the veroboard to the platform? With tape?

changfrancis, you cannot print with the heated bed off, as far as I know - it is automatically turned on when printing.

trebuchet03
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by trebuchet03 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:49 am

-soapy- wrote:Now that is an inspired idea! It's even copper clad which will spread the heat better than the regular aluminium.
Not to make you unhappy (rather, temper your thermal expectations)... I tried a copper spreader underneath, I had it around, figured to give it a shot. It was about 130x130mm.

Results: Physics and Heat Transfer Win - it conducts faster, but also conducts heat away faster. I measured the same thermal delta.

I did measure a nearly immeasurable increase in power consumption (we're talking a few kWhrs difference over the control measurement) - if I had accurate enough equipment, I'd say that verifies the conduction increase observation - more heat is escaping to the environment and therefore more heat is needed to maintain T.

The protoboard is sweet, I've ordered a big one to use when I start getting warping issues :) I think the advantage there is more mechanical rather than thermal.
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Gilius
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by Gilius » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:31 am

So does it actually help with big print warping?

hardness
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by hardness » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:20 am

trebuchet03 wrote: Results: Physics and Heat Transfer Win - it conducts faster, but also conducts heat away faster. I measured the same thermal delta.

I did measure a nearly immeasurable increase in power consumption (we're talking a few kWhrs difference over the control measurement) - if I had accurate enough equipment, I'd say that verifies the conduction increase observation - more heat is escaping to the environment and therefore more heat is needed to maintain T.

A few...KWhrs?!
How few is a few?
What was your control measurement? :o

trebuchet03
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by trebuchet03 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:16 pm

hardness wrote:
trebuchet03 wrote: Results: Physics and Heat Transfer Win - it conducts faster, but also conducts heat away faster. I measured the same thermal delta.

I did measure a nearly immeasurable increase in power consumption (we're talking a few kWhrs difference over the control measurement) - if I had accurate enough equipment, I'd say that verifies the conduction increase observation - more heat is escaping to the environment and therefore more heat is needed to maintain T.

A few...KWhrs?!
How few is a few?
What was your control measurement? :o

eeek! A few watt hours! Sorry for that and thanks for calling me out :)

Control is the Up! as stock. Idling for about 48 hours with green paint at about 20C ambient (not super sophisticated measurements, some swings up/down during the day/night are unaccounted/controlled) - preheating. 1.9KWhr

Same conditions with copper shim - 2.1 KWhr for the same time period.

There's enough room for measurement error and environment factors to account for that difference (which is why I'm calling it nearly immeasurable).


Material was an off cut from McMaster part # 2545T42 - it was a little over 1mm thick.
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-soapy-
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by -soapy- » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:17 pm

I'll not bother then! The veroboard, on the other hand, I will be buying.

TeamTeamUSA
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Re: Suggestions for printing big model

Post by TeamTeamUSA » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:41 am

The perfboard trick is baller! Big UP!s rross! :D

I haven't had any warping since I started printing on it and I'm going deep and wide and tall. Of course I've done the platform leveling and nozzle height adjustments, but until I printed on perfboard, I'd get some warping on wide, long or thick prints. If you can't find copper plated perfboard, no worries; it's the holes, not the copper, that does the trick.

A few tips if you decide to do this:

1. READJUST NOZZLE HEIGHT!!! Since you're adding ~1.5mm to the top of the platform, your current height will cause the nozzle to meet the perfboard in an unsightly way.
2. REMOVE! Remove the platform from the printer before attempting to dislodge the print from the perfboard. The print sticks well and you don't want to subject your printer to the forces necessary to to unstick it.
3. BIAS! Cut the board on an angle so that the perfs are not parallel to the printer's X and Y axes. I belatedly noticed that rross cut his on a bias; my utility knife scoring wasn't spot on, so it's all good. Yours will be better if you plan for this.
4. TAPE WELL! Ensure that the tape - blue painter's tape works great - sufficiently wraps around the top and bottom of the platform. On my first print, I wrapped the tape miserly on the perfboard and while printing, one of the strips detached. No prints suffered during this episode.
5. COOL! Definitely allow the platform to cool a few minutes before removing the print. The plastic in the holes contracts and makes removal easier.
6. DON'T PREHEAT! One of the bonuses of printing on perfboard is that the platform doesn't need preheating. This saves time, effort and watts.
7. OVERLAP! When printing multiple models, I overlap the rafts a bit so that all rafts are connected. This ensures that raft areas that fall outside the perfs are still secured by those that do (maybe less of any issue if you cut the board on a bias).
8. LED! Most of the plastic comes out of the holes, but to remove the bits that remain, LED leads work great (we all have the odd LED laying about, yes?)!

I'm still pondering a better way to attach the perfboard to the platform. Tape works for now, but...

1. Clips on the side to mechanically affix perfboard and platform?
2. Remove platform and print directly on perfboard?

Hmmm...

Go!

=ml=
Last edited by TeamTeamUSA on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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