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Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:32 pm
by ata0921
I noticed that on most of my prints, the infill for the first couple of layers after the raft do not reach the perimeter walls. Is there a preference I need to adjust to compensate? The top of the prints are filled to the perimeter walls. So what's the deal?

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:34 pm
by Madox
I noticed this for the solid fills, oddly the 'loose' fills go to the edge/perimeter more for me...

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:59 pm
by ata0921
That is odd. You would expect the solid option to be the better of the two. I am printing most things on the loose option and have yet to get the base infill to reach the perimeter walls. I am printing at normal speed, so I can't make it go any slower. The only thing I can think of to help is maybe lower the resolution? Figure that since each layer is not so think, it would cover the minute gaps better?

If that makes sense.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:28 am
by ata0921
After some testing, I did find that the lower the resolution, the smaller the gaps between the infill and perimeter. However, the gaps are still there. Although the pieces are still structurally sound, it's not really aesthetically pleasing. I noticed by observing my prints that the UP! does the infill before the perimeter (almost) every time. I can understand the gaps forming if I were to be printing on the Fast speed, but I still have the gaps on the Fine speed.

I assume this is a software related aspect and would like to know if somewhere down the road there can be an option to change the pattern in which the UP! prints. Or maybe an adjustable parameter for the overlap between infill/perimeter.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:28 am
by ata0921
After some testing, I did find that the lower the resolution, the smaller the gaps between the infill and perimeter. However, the gaps are still there. Although the pieces are still structurally sound, it's not really aesthetically pleasing. I noticed by observing my prints that the UP! does the infill before the perimeter (almost) every time. I can understand the gaps forming if I were to be printing on the Fast speed, but I still have the gaps on the Fine speed.

I assume this is a software related aspect and would like to know if somewhere down the road there can be an option to change the pattern in which the UP! prints. Or maybe an adjustable parameter for the overlap between infill/perimeter.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:59 pm
by -soapy-
ata0921 wrote: I noticed by observing my prints that the UP! does the infill before the perimeter (almost) every time.
I get the opposite. The outside edge prints first, I'm 99% sure.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:14 am
by ata0921
Just observed a few of my prints in progress. I am printing Rusty Huxley from thingiverse on my own self-created sheets (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4986). The infill is laid down before the perimeter at least 95% of the time.

Seeing that you are reporting the opposite, this leads me to believe that it is a software related issue. Is there a way for me to change this?

Also, what is the order of printing for other people's printer? Is the infill being laid down first or second?

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:47 am
by TeamTeamUSA
ata0921 wrote: Seeing that you are reporting the opposite, this leads me to believe that it is a software related issue. Is there a way for me to change this?

Also, what is the order of printing for other people's printer? Is the infill being laid down first or second?
With version 1.0.8 and a <100 SN printer, the outline is deposited first, then the infill when using these settings:

* Print def: 0.20
* Fill: Loose
* Quality: Normal

Go!

=ml=

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:32 pm
by -soapy-
Ok, I looked. I was wrong - the infill is printed first, then the outline, on the raft at least. I think it swaps to the outer first once the raft is printed, but I'm not sure.

I also noticed, and finally managed to catch on film, a slight bug, possibly in the software.

When printing the raft, the first little bit of raft is never printed!
start of raft.jpg
start of raft.jpg (53.5 KiB) Viewed 18827 times
The lefthand (nearer) raft is missing the start of the line, the second one is as it should be.

Below is the second layer being printed, and you can see where it has failed to print the first bit of the raft layer, then gone over it on the second pass.
second layer raft.jpg
second layer raft.jpg (34.16 KiB) Viewed 18827 times
This happens every single time, which is a bit odd, since the "pre-heat feed" works fine, and the UP! doesn't fail to feed for the intermittent parts of a print - it is only this first few moments of any print.

Does anyone else get this?

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:01 am
by odiegel
I too notice a very slight delay before the noozle starts to extrude material after it has started printing. But I havent found it makes any difference as, once you get to the second or third layer of the raft, the missing plastic no longer affects the build.
Cheers
Olaf

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:57 pm
by art103
Was there ever an answer to the infill not reaching the edges?
I am trying to print a 2mm thick wall using .25mm, but both the inner and outer wall of the box have detached from the infill.
A 1mm thick wall fuses ok, so is it possible to tell the UP! to print 4x 0.5mm lines rather than 2x 0.5mm + 1mm of infill?

The model is an 80mm x 80mm x 20mm case / box.

Many thanks,
art103.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:02 pm
by Madox
art103 wrote:Was there ever an answer to the infill not reaching the edges?
I am trying to print a 2mm thick wall using .25mm, but both the inner and outer wall of the box have detached from the infill.
A 1mm thick wall fuses ok, so is it possible to tell the UP! to print 4x 0.5mm lines rather than 2x 0.5mm + 1mm of infill?

The model is an 80mm x 80mm x 20mm case / box.

Many thanks,
art103.
Keep in mind the nozzle diameter is approximately 0.35mm - so 0.5mm line while technically possible with a bit of 'squishing', it is a bit hard to achieve.

To avoid 'detaching' as you call it, I have had to find 'nice' wall thicknesses to work with. These change depending on fine/normal/fast as well as layer thickness.
You just have to experiment I suppose?

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:49 am
by Marcus
Tell me about it. It drove me nuts at first... ;-)

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:53 pm
by art103
Thanks for the responses.
To save other new comers the same pain, I have created some test prints.
I found that the speed (Fine / Normal / Fast) didn't make a difference to the lines drawn, but it may affect the marginal results where it sometimes sticks and other doesn't.

0.4mm test print:
Solid_Wall_Test_0_40mm_small.JPG
0.40mm layer test print for wall thickness
Solid_Wall_Test_0_40mm_small.JPG (51.06 KiB) Viewed 18085 times
0.25mm test print:
Solid_Wall_Test_0_25mm_small.JPG
Test print of wall solidity (0.25mm layers)
Solid_Wall_Test_0_25mm_small.JPG (243.46 KiB) Viewed 18085 times
The actual wall thicknesses were not accurate, but that's expected :)

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:20 am
by Marcus
Wow. Thanks for sharing it!
This belongs into the manual...

I still have trouble with tiny, tiny fonts, at least <3mm height, any experience in that? :-)

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:16 pm
by wackojacko
If I need the tops closed, I print at a slight angle.

Text is best indented on its side.

The support doesn't use much material at all.

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:42 pm
by Marcus
Yes, I am printing text at the side for highest resolution,... I guess I just want too much :-)

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:14 am
by odiegel
Thanks art103!!!
Will add this info to next iteration of user manual, if you don't mind. :-)
Cheers
Olaf

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:28 am
by Marcus
Thanks for updating the manual so often!

Re: Infill/Perimeter

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:13 pm
by art103
Olaf,
Sure, no problem.

I've only had my UP! for a few days, so no experience with text yet.
The tip about closing the tops (bottoms too?) is great - that was going to be one of my next questions :)

Maybe a tips + tricks sticky for the forum?
Including the reference to Olaf's manual - I didn't know it existed until I saw the link to http://3dprintingsystems.com/ in the "windshield update" topic today.
I was using the one e-mailed to me by pp3dp after ordering the printer.

Cheers,
art103.