Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

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wilsonj
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Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by wilsonj » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:16 pm

Here is something I made to help print with aftermarket ABS. It's a resistor inline with the heater/thermister that tricks the UP into thinking it is at print temperature. The resistor drops the temp to about 230-240C, into the range of most ABS.

I have found the lower temp reduces or eliminates popping of some filaments, and makes the removal of support material a little easier. Although the OEM filament is still the best when it comes to this.

It can also help stop the release of poisonous gas that can occur when ABS is heated above it's recommended temperature.

Anyway, just a stopgap until UP give us control over the printing temperatures. (which I'm sure they will next week, now I have made this! :D )

I have also fitted a switch so its easy to switch between OEM and aftermarket ABS.

Image

Here it is with a modified lid to hold the switch. Its tight enough to not need screws.

Image
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

goopyplastic
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by goopyplastic » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:51 pm

what are the resistor values you have found useful? might be interesting to couple this with a standalone microcontroller potentiometer extra thermister and lcd screen to give actual values and be able to change them easily over a range.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:08 am

I've been thinking about this, too. I'm pretty sure the sensor is a platinum RTD, not a thermistor. An RTD would certainly be a better choice for this application anyway imo - they're more linear and predictable than thermistors, and they indicate absolute temperature so they don't need a cold-junction reference like thermocouples. Usually RTD's are driven by a constant-current source, so in order to make the Up think that its sensor is still connected you'd probably want to drive it with a uC-controlled constant-current source, but first you'd need to figure out if it's ground-referenced, floating, or what. Once that's in place then, as goopy says, it'd be pretty straightforward to add temp controls and a display. It'd sure be nice just to be able to monitor nozzle temp while printing...

But as a quick solution, wilsonj's series-resistor hack is fine for lowering the temp. 230-240C might be good for PLA, too. For polycarbonate you'd want to switch in a parallel resistor, probably in the 600-700 Ohm range, to make the Up think that the temp is low so you end up somewhere around 300C.

Nice pioneering work, Jamie! It's a shame, though, that we have to go through such contortions when just a few lines of code from pp3dp would address the issue much more elegantly :x

julia

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wilsonj
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by wilsonj » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:47 am

Hi

The resistor I'm using is 13 ohms. I experimented with a pot and this value seemed to work best for me. I did consider doing something more elaborate, but as I jested UP could come out with an update that makes this all redundant.

Julia, you are right I did mean RTD not thermistor.

I'm confidant UP will address the isuue of temperature control in a future update. Fingers crossed...

If anyone one wants one, and Is unable or unwilling to make their own drop me a PM.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

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Lawrence
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by Lawrence » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:59 am

This item is a good example of the sort of thing that suitable to be posted in the commercial section. I am sure that there are users who would happily pay a reasonable price for your solution rather than trying to re-invent it.

eyUP
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by eyUP » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:43 pm

This is a really clever solution 8-)

I don't really understand DM's aversion to adding some simple options in the software though :?

art103
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by art103 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:51 pm

Thanks for the inspiration!

I received a batch of plastic that just didn't work well with the standard ABS or PLA settings.
Having spent a couple of evenings making this mod, I am really pleased with the result of lowering the extrusion temperature!

The buttons allow me to go between 180 and 260 degC target temp (under the hood, it is actually an offset of 0 to 80 degC). With some minor tweaking it would be easy enough to re-center to allow pretty much any extrusion temperature between room temperature and 360 degC depending on the thermal insulation of the hot end.

Image
Image

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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by art103 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:20 am

Some details:
As Julia pointed out, it is a 100 Ohm Platinum RTD.
I used this datasheet for reference:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... LTcGvQKJXg

I believe the RTD is ground referenced, with approx 2k8 to 3.1V to provide a relatively constant current.
I used a series 33R resistor with a transistor driven by PWM used to bypass the series resistor and a 10uF cap to make a low pass filter.
In this configuration, 100% PWM gives the standard temperature of 260 (or 0 deg offset), it is then nice and linear down to 0% PWM, where you get a -80DegC offset.

In theory, adding a fixed value parallel resistor to the RTD would allow the base temperature to be lowered in order to increase the extrusion temperature above 260DegC, you would then have to compensate with the PWM to get back to a default of 260.
Equally increasing the series resistor value will increase the range.

Image
Last edited by art103 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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josejuako
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by josejuako » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:31 am

art103 I like one , congratulation .

[quote][/quote]


Jose
Last edited by josejuako on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by JuliaDee » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:15 am

Nicely done! I'm sure if you offered a kit you'd find lots of takers here :)

julia

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wilsonj
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by wilsonj » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:15 am

Nice work.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

jspark
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by jspark » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:51 am

Great! wilsonj and art103!!!
There's a lot of popping when I use the aftermarket ABS.
So I tried to modify following wilsonj's post.

I used the trimmer and small switch.
The small switch can check the original temperature.
20120823_500_jspark.JPG
20120823_500_jspark.JPG (204.03 KiB) Viewed 28445 times
The Black Line is RTD's line on the main board cable.
20120823_medel_compare_500.jpg
Aftermarket ABS Temp. Test
20120823_medel_compare_500.jpg (109.92 KiB) Viewed 28445 times
There's no popping when the about -50 deg.
The printing result was very nice!

Thanks! wilsonj!! :D

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JuliaDee
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:43 pm

jspark wrote:
I used the trimmer and small switch.
The pushbutton to check actual temperature is brilliant! Thanks so much for the great photos showing dramatic improvement.

julia

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:34 pm

JuliaDee wrote:Nicely done! I'm sure if you offered a kit you'd find lots of takers here :)

julia
Yes, really great work, :D
I too would be interested in purchasing this mod (I stay away from electronics, I'm strictly a mechanical thinker :lol: ).
I know of at least 7 printer owners here that would be interested too.
I do hope that DM does come out with some software updates to address these issues but I've been asking them for more than a year and a half, no joy so far. :(
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
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http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by amd-tec » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:44 pm

:roll: Just wondering how is with the warranty when doing all those mods to printer :?
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wilsonj
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by wilsonj » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:15 pm

jspark, great work. Nice comparison photos too ! What impedance have you set the pot to?

I've been wondering, now with the release of high temp colours by UP, perhaps we won't see a software revision allowing for temp control. In a way it would be silly. Why spend time and money developing a high temp filament, then give us the ability to use low temp ??
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

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josejuako
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by josejuako » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:31 pm

Now is very good your contributions , I want one don't forget .
DrewPetitclerc wrote:
JuliaDee wrote:Nicely done! I'm sure if you offered a kit you'd find lots of takers here :)

julia
Yes, really great work, :D
I too would be interested in purchasing this mod (I stay away from electronics, I'm strictly a mechanical thinker :lol: ).

I do hope that DM does come out with some software updates to address these issues but I've been asking them for more than a year and a half, no joy so far. :(

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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by jspark » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:04 am

JuliaDee>> Thanks!
Wilsonj>> Thanks. The initial temperature was about 69.8 deg on the original temp. 20 deg when the trimmers resistance is 16.8 Ohm. I agree with you about pp3dp's have to update the software having a temperature control function. I like my UP Printer, but I dont like pp3dp's business mind. There's a ABS filament personal maker in korea who sent me the samples for testing. http://blog.naver.com/shinsun3, It just KRW16,500(USD14.56) per 1 kg spool. And there's a transparency filament. I think all Upers want lower price filament!!! I hope pp3dp changes the business mind. :!:

eyUP
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by eyUP » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:25 am

Just wondering how is with the warranty when doing all those mods to printer
It's a good point, I would say that it the warranty won't cover anything related to any mods you may have done.
eg: if the heating element fails because you've been messing with the RTD then it wouldn't be covered, if a stepper motor failed under normal use, then it would be covered.
Distributors and users alike should use common sense and be fair about warranty claims...I'm sure any user that has been experimenting with all kinds of plastics through their extruder won't expect a blocked nozzle to be covered under warranty.

Saying all this has made me realise some warranty small print is probably needed with new machine sales, just to confirm expectations
I think all Upers want lower price filament!!! I hope pp3dp changes the business mind
There is great resistance (no pun intended) from DM to add any options to allow other filaments.
Personally I don't think it will ever happen - they have a product that works, it's reliable and has very few warranty issues - why would they open the machine to "abuse" from untested materials ? I know someone who brought in some grass-strimmer filament from home and ran that through an extruder - he had no idea what it was made of and it made a real mess of the machine :lol:

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JuliaDee
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Re: Printing at lower temps for aftermarket ABS

Post by JuliaDee » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:37 am

For me it's color choice and availability much more than cost that drives me to other filament suppliers. Honestly I don't think that the "official" filament is so much better than that of other reputable suppliers. I've gotten really excellent results from other vendors' materials; the Up! stuff isn't magical.

DM/pp3dp is being totally unrealistic if they expect people to use nothing but their stuff, especially since their color range is so limited. Not only unrealistic but truly unwise and short-sighted - a machine that performs well with a variety of filaments will ultimately be accepted and sell much better than a finicky machine that works only with premium-priced material from one supplier. People don't want to buy into closed systems, especially in a young and changing field.

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