Calibration preservation BUG

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svid123
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:26 am

Calibration preservation BUG

Post by svid123 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:45 pm

REPRO steps:

1. Reset calibration. Print Calibrate96.UP3.
2. Enter measured distorted values in corresponding fields of Calibration CDialogBox
3. Print Calibrate96.UP3 to check if calibration is OK. After printing, there is no distortions, calibration works OK.
4. Print several different objects with previously calibrated printer. Every time disconnect printer from PC after the begining of print job and shut down after each print completed
5. Print Calibrate96.UP3 again to check if it is still calibrated
6. Printed Calibrate96.UP3 has distortion as before calibration (as at step 1), however calibration CDialogBox still shows correct calibration degrees values in it's caption.
7. Enter measured new distorted values in corresponding fields of Calibration CDialogBox, new calibration values will be almost the same as after step 2 (no degrees addition)


Obviously UP software has bug in printing with calibration settings, or it's a very bad undocumented feature (however, it seems everything on this forum stays 'undocumented' and 'non-feedback' and 'non-supported' by the support team). It seems it losts that calibration after several prints. And it's almost impossible to print precise 3D engeneering parts with such poor behaviour of calibration.
Last edited by svid123 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:35 am, edited 4 times in total.

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josejuako
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:55 am

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by josejuako » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 am

Hello
I like to see this post and I agree with your observation. Also there is no technical surfaces grip the impression this made, many times when I feel all people speculating.
I always thought it is an expensive toy which owners say is a professional machine , is not, all buyers have been resolved here in this forum without echo. I've always said from the beginning.
However I have relatively good jobs.
I can not understand that all are passive and do not request changes harder. The cost of this machine is fine can not exceed. The cubity of 3DSys, stabilized its cost.
Best of all is that I like , but I also get angry.
I love my machine and I do all to do better prints .

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by roller » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:08 am

I think if you look over the history of this forum you will see many users making very stern complaints about a number of features especially changes in versions which ruin their prints without PP3DP telling us they made changes or what changed but they die down after a while when they get tired of complaining and nothing much happening. Occasionally Edward does pop on to clarify a misunderstanding.

I think there has also been a lot of development effort wasted fixing the issues with the Mini's by incorporating software leveling and minimal rafts etc to make it so Mini could actually print the area claimed - this was a bit of a PR disaster for them and I guess could have gotten them (or resellers) sued or at least some fines. So it's understandable. Hopefully, the competition from Cubify will see them lift their game with a bigger printer and more control over print parameters to give them the advantage.

To the original question - I also get general weirdness and inconsistency around calibration but I put it down to being on a Mac and our software being generally second rate to the Windows versions.

mr6k
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by mr6k » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:11 am

I maybe wrong, but the impression I get regarding lack of feedback from the manufacturer is probably the Oriental attitude to loosing face!. In my previous business life dealing with these geographical areas there is a great deal of silence from them until there is absolutely no possibility, in their minds, that they could be wrong. Now I do not say that this attitude is necessarily incorrect when dealing with some situations, but it does sometimes lead to companies failing where they have believed they were the top supplier and no one else was going to beat them, only to find out too late that their customers had moved to suppliers who were more willing to discuss and develop their products.

Just my view, but I do find the manufacturer's lack of response on this forum very frustrating.

cheers

Peter

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by roller » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:16 am

Since I have a lot of Chinese and other asian friends and also deal with a lot of IT suppliers as an IT manager for over 10 years I can say it's a touch presumptuous to immediately leap to it being a cultural thing. Most companies don't like to voice or discuss the flaws in their products and many go so far as to delete negative comments off their forums. I have had a few disparaging rants particularly about the state of the Mini when it was first released and they not only left the comments live but also responded to them both in the forums and more fully in an email discussion...

I suspect like many businesses they have their plans for the future of the software and what things they don't want to give us, for commercial reasons, and that is the end of it. With respect to bugs I think their testing is a little underdone but I have worked in a few development firms and I have spent a lot of time trying to also bring their testing up to an adequate level, even in the banking sector so I although I find the software annoying buggy and not very user focused I don't think this is unusual and certainly not specifically asian ... just damn frustrating and disappointing as a customer.

mr6k
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by mr6k » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:57 am

Hi Roller,
OK point taken, maybe things have changed over the years, my observations relate to the "cultural thing" back in the 1970's and 1980's. However having been Market Development Director in my past life for many years on high value technical kit, motion picture film scanners, popping out at £500,000 or more I can say that our customers wish lists were responded to in both positive or negative terms. i.e. We either stated that we were developing a solution, always the case, where we had "cocked up" or we advised that we were not going to develop a particular function. In that way our customers knew what to expect rather than just being left hanging. And indeed customers or third parties then went on to develop "add ons" that we had declined to offer. I think it is all we are asking, cannot the manufacturer, having a substantial wish list from us just say yes or no to whether they are intending to develop some of our wishes and if so which ones. If they advise they are not developing some wishes, to advise which and then I guess some out there will strive harder to offer alternate supplier fixes.

cheers

Peter

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by roller » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:10 pm

I am not saying many companies don't do their support a lot better or a lot worse ... I am just saying we shouldn't point a culture finger straight away. I do wish PP3DP would be more transparent and responsive for sure. In particular, if they are not going to support a feature they should at least put us (and especially jose wrt temp ;) ) out of our misery and tell us it's not coming any time soon.

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scubamatt41
Posts: 303
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by scubamatt41 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:33 pm

mr6k wrote:I can say that our customers wish lists were responded to in both positive or negative terms. i.e. We either stated that we were developing a solution, always the case, where we had "cocked up" or we advised that we were not going to develop a particular function. In that way our customers knew what to expect rather than just being left hanging.
@ mr6k Just out of curiosity, what was the timespan inbetween collecting all requests/feedback from customers and responding to them?

I notice some things slipping the mind of the PP3DP team but when I read rollers input, I mean I never looked at it that way. (on the company part)
Always breath out on the way UP

mr6k
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by mr6k » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:09 pm

Hi scubamatt41

Time spans varied, from days to sometimes months, for "cock-up" fixes dependent on complexity, some "enhancements / new features" were within 3 months, but some took over 1 year. The point is that we let the customer know within days that we were working on "cock up" fixes and most of time within 2 months for"enhancements / new features as they were subject to monthly development meetings

cheers

Peter

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scubamatt41
Posts: 303
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by scubamatt41 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:46 pm

Okay mr6k,

Thanks for explaining and it sure is a different approach from what most of the UPers on this forum are experiencing ;)
How did the feedback reach you? Was there a forum like this one on which a community that used you're product, reviewed it, gave positive and negative feedback. I think a company nowaday's really has to be carefull saying things or make statements online. (honestly, not only company's)
Always breath out on the way UP

MrMaker
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:56 pm
Location: UK

Re: Calibration preservation BUG

Post by MrMaker » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:46 pm

I too have had problems with the vertical calibration feature, I first posted this a few weeks ago in the "calibration" thread (http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2638) but got no useful response from anyone - just made me me feel like I was stupid and had done something wrong. I also had problems in v1.17 with this feature. I have followed the instruction to the letter and it works initially then for some reason the prints start leaning to the back of the printer again although the calibration values appear to still be stored - at least the calibration results show in the Calibration window title bar but the pre-calibration errors in print are back. Even if you reset these, print the calibration model and reenter the measurements it never seems to take the values. I uninstalled the software, deleted the program folders left behind after the uninstall and deleted all of the entries related to UP in the system registry then reinstalled v1.17 and then entered my previous calibration readings, so far the prints have been true and vertical. Tonight I installed v1.18 in another folder alongside the v1.17 and ran this, again so far perfectly vertical prints. I have no idea when or what causes it to stop using the calibration settings but it would seem when this occurs you have to remove UP software completely and start again to get back to a calibrated printer.

I have reported this by email to Delta Micro Factory as I have an extended warranty with support, they are looking into it.

Fingers crossed!

Lee

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