How much do you actually use your up! Printer

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mec949
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How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by mec949 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:54 am

Heyo,
The reason why I ask this question is that I have wanted a 3d printer ever since I saw the primitive incarnations of the technology all the way back in 2005. Back then they were ridiculously expensive and generally podwer based, so, insanely messy. As I followed the technology, it became more refined and I would put off the temptation of buying a sub 5000 model in hope for something better, faster and cheaper to run.

Yet there was a lingering question from people to whom I had mentioned my intention to by a3d printer..."why would you want one of those? You will play with it for 5 minutes and them it will sit there unused for months."

I like to draw and create, I am also a primary school teacher in which I think this technology is well suited on several levels.
Kids should know this technology (as well as 3d software like sketch up. Cheap and easy. Not just downloading stuff from a website but making your own stuff)

So tell me, what is it that you make with your up!, what would you create with your students if you were a primary school teacher? Do you have to save up to afford the filament, which filament is your favorite.

$1700 is a lot of money unless it will pay for itself (the price in Australia when buying from au reseller) so one must internally justify these things especially with the ongoing costs.

Thanks for watching, share your thoughts :mrgreen:

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woofy
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by woofy » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:14 am

The build plate runs hotter than boiling water!
The nozzle temperature runs hotter than molten Tin.
Personally, I would not allow primary level students anywhere near the machine.

I'm all for teaching youngsters about the technology though.
Allow them to create their designs, make it a competion and tell them the winning design will be sent of to a printing service and they will be allowed to keep their printed design. That will be far cheaper than buying a printer. Search the web for videos of various printers in action and show these to the students.
UP plus, Ultimaker2 & Raise N2+ Printers.

thejollygrimreaper
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by thejollygrimreaper » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:08 pm

I use my 3d printer quite a bit , my prusa runs nearly 24hours a day 7 days a week, my up! is another story entirely,

if you haven't already bought one, the only question i would ask myself is are you prepared to pay for the filament they sell?,it's not cheap, and the printer is really only built for that filament, using anything else will cause you a lot of problems, even if you switch back to the up! branded stuff,

Marcus
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by Marcus » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:10 pm

Hello Woofy, here are my two cents ;-)
I am in the progress of studying youth&education, but had not had the chance to use my UP with kids so far.

Online-Service VS own printer
PRO:
-High quality
-Multiple materials/properties
-Color prints

CON:
-Printing services charge $1-$2 per Gram of material, plus setup fee and shipping. So after 2KG the printer usually is a good way to go.

-Especially younger kids have more fun if they can see results quickly. Designing something, then choosing one and sending it to a printing service, waiting a week... that's not very exciting, especially if you are a kid. It's a bit different with older students.

-If something is not printable or does not turn out well, the whole progress starts all over again.

HOT!
It's similar to matches and candles. You can teach ONE child (even in Kindergarden) to safely put on a candle, but if you have a large group of kids or just give it to them ... and leave them unatended ... it get's dangerous.
Many underestimate how much children can comprehend and the level of responsibility they are capable of. Also I've worked with kindergarden kids who had more patience then high-school students when working on complex projects.
If you explain how it works, how hot it gets, it will all work out.


If you have a small class, and you have the control over the power switch, I don't see any trouble. Also, the UP Mini with it's chamber might be a good idea, though there's less to see.

One more option is PLA (not quite as hot and no heated bed required) or even cold extrusion materials ("Frostruder" on Makerbots/Repraps).


Is it worth it, will I print regularly?
Definitely. You don't even know what you are going to print until you have this great tool infront of you.
I started printing replacement parts for furniture, parts for other hobbies, and somehow got started printing earrings... So many things possible.

If you work with Kids, they will have many ideas, I am sure some will get hooked and keep designing stuff & asking you to print it. It is an amazing technology, and every school should have a UP and/or a Reprap.

Which printer?
The big UP+ is a great device, high resolution, bigger build area... and rigid.
The UP mini though is at a price level more persons/schools can afford. You're not going to let kids print huge things anyway (too expensive), and most of the time big things don't require a perfect surface, so you can glue/melt multiple parts together.

Depending on the age of the kids you work with, the mechanical aspects might be fascinating as well. Have you seen the Printrbot for example? It costs $399 (Junior) / $549 (regular sized) / $699 (larger Plus version).
Teachers even get off $150 (not for the small Jr. though).
The quality is nowhere near the UP. But you can modify hard- and software (or use existing stuff). You can also attach a pen to draw, or a syringe with frosting for example. Also you can use real cheap materials.
I just sat down to build mine, and it was fun (and really not hard, no soldering). It took one weekend to get up and running, after a little tinkering I printed the first usable parts.

Workflow:
UP: Design, Print, done! Everybody can use it. Really. The support material breaks away very easily, too- so complex models are possible.
Reprap/Printrbot: Design, Tinker, Print, tinker, reprint... But materials and repairs are cheaper ;-)

I'd recomend:
For a school -
Get two UP Mini. The prints on one machine take quite a while and this will have many benefits.
If you work with kids 8+ the mechanical aspects of a Reprap could get interesting.
At 2-6 cents per gram of material (depending on what printer and the choice of material) it's not that expensive either, so ALL kids can make something (compared to online printing services, which you can still use after prototyping).

For yourself -
Try to figure out what you need, if the bigger build size is something you want. If you print very small things, you'll benefit of the higher layer resolution.


How many kids do you teach per class?
-Marcus

pleppik
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by pleppik » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:44 pm

Here's four more cents....

1) The Up is still a hobbyist-grade machine. That means you need to expect spend some time tinkering with it and making minor repairs from time to time.

2) The heat has the potential for minor burns, but it's comparable to what you would encounter boiling a pot of water on a stove. The really hot part (the nozzle) is very small and behind a plastic shield. A stover burner gets much hotter and is much larger.

3) If you are not comfortable making minor modifications to your printer, you should plan to stick to filament which is specifically sold for the Up or its OEM versions: Up, Afinia, Octave, and there are some others. Some of that filament is very attractively priced, though, and will work fine.

4) A couple of small tweaks will make the printer much more forgiving of out-of-spec filament, and you can try other sources. Contrary to what someone else posted, using off-brand filament will not damage the printer as long as you stick to ABS. It might, however, get jammed and require you to disassemble and clean the hot end. This is not difficult, especially if you keep in mind point 1 above.

Personally I use my printer a lot. I go through about 2 kg of plastic per month. I print toys for kids (my own, my nieces and nephews, friends of my kids, etc.), interesting gizmos and sculptures I find on Thingiverse, stuff my kids design in Sketchup, and a lot of experimenting to better understand how to work with the technology. I expect that a 3D printer in a classroom would see a LOT of use, though it would take some effort to design the curriculum to go around it. I can see applications all over the place, though: science and math (duh!), art, making dioramas, etc., etc., etc.

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JuliaDee
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by JuliaDee » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:13 pm

woofy wrote:The build plate runs hotter than boiling water!
The nozzle temperature runs hotter than molten Tin.
Personally, I would not allow primary level students anywhere near the machine.
<snip>
When my father was a boy he made toy soldiers by pouring molten lead into molds and then painting them, probably with lead-based paints. He lived a great life and died at 90.

The body has nerves and pain responses that cause us to recoil instantly from hot surfaces. Enough nanny-state over-protectiveness, germ-o-phobia, anti-bacterial coatings, and other nonsense. We've produced a generation of allergy-ridden wimps. Let children learn to rely on the natural defenses they were born with, honed by millions of years of evolution.

The most dangerous part of 3D printing, imo, is the sharp tools needed to remove support, and flying fragment of plastic.

julia

Marcus
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by Marcus » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:38 pm

Oh, verrrrry good point. Gloves and goggles! Lab glasses cost ~1-2 Eur on eBay including shipping.

FallGuy
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by FallGuy » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:36 pm

I second Julia! When I was a kid I had a chemistry set with all sorts of little vials of various powders and liquids to could be mixed together in outlined experiments, some of them made invisible ink, some made billowing clouds of smoke or pretty sparks. I got burned once or twice on hot glassware but no real damage, and I learned to love experimentation, and science and math and all that goes with it. They stopped selling those little chemistry sets years ago, and all of the other "hands on" kits that may have been a little tricky but were enjoyable to work on with your parents or a friend to help out; they were deemed too dangerous. I am not sure that the loss of these toys and projects isn't at least partly to blame for kids losing interest in science and math because there is no hands on results they can touch and interact with. And as a result they pick up their Ipads and cell phones instead of trying new things.

I would have been in HEAVEN if a teacher had had one of these devices in the classroom to show or demonstrate how some math principle worked or how it fit into the real world! Heck, a little bribe of "if you pay attention all week and on Friday you can make something" would have gone miles to make me pay attention better!

As Marcus says "Care must be taken", but the useful possibilities are endless!
Thanks,

FallGuy

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woofy
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by woofy » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:10 pm

Mec949,

Be careful with some of the opinions above or you may leave yourself open to litigation when, not if, the inevitable accident happens. I support your efforts to expose children to this exciting new technology, but putting the original up into the hands of 5 year olds is not the way. I suggested an alternative and here's another: go for the safer and cheaper up mini or other enclosed printer.
UP plus, Ultimaker2 & Raise N2+ Printers.

goopyplastic
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by goopyplastic » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:32 am

By far the most dangerous part of my 3d printing experience is using the scraper to remove the item from the perfboard ... many gashes later I am a little more cautious ... a little. If you want something to print around youngsters you might consider a PLA printer, no heated bed, less fumes, lower nozzle temp etc..

mec949
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by mec949 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:51 am

a frame of reference if i may

i would only use a 3d printer as a tactile visualisation to using of a 3d software like sketchup (most likely sketchup) in a design and modeling/technology class primary school.

Only year 5 and 6 would be allowed access in any way to 3d printouts (ie printing their stuff out). probably only the most responsible children in yr 5/6 would have any direct access to the machine (and they would have to have a strong knowledge of the software).

Younger people (kindie - 5yr olds and similar) may see the machine in operation but that is as close as it would ever get.

most of the work would take place designing on a theme or solving a problem using sketchup 8. The reasoning behind this is so that at least some of the students may gather a spark for design and making that has a practicle outcome, which they can actually make money from (in theory). As a reward it would be golden. And in art it would also be cool as you could mold and cast from the pieces you print. And make those models you can never find in the stores. more to follow.

hey is anyone else in here a teacher, primary or secondary?

Marcus
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:18 am

I've worked in schools, longest was a year (but only once a week). I've worked there with 14-16 year olds, but on other occasions with younger and older students as well. Usualy media related things (Stopmotion animation, digital media...)
In 5th grade I started with basic electronic circuits and programming, 3D shortly after, that age is perfect for things like 3d printing imho.

mec949
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by mec949 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:15 am

i have to agree that year five is the target age and especially as you can continue their efforts into year 6. and they are old enough to have at least basic skill development in sketchup.

Also, as a demonstration, perhaps using reconstructme and a kinect, you can model and print scans of real worl things, like the kids themselves. very cool.

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wackojacko
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by wackojacko » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:46 am

We are finding more and more primary schools using minecraft and mineways to design and 3D print. Also tinkercad is very popular.

www.3DPrintingSystems.com
Bruce
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Need help with your printer, check out our Youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/3dprinting ... /playlists

mec949
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by mec949 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:06 pm

thanks for the information...

UPUPandAway
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by UPUPandAway » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:12 pm

I think the best way to go about it might be to get the school district or at least the school itself to buy one as a "shared" thing and allow various classes/departments to use it for various projects. That way, the printer will see more frequent use and its cost will be more justified. However, as other's have said, it is somewhat dangerous if used around people that couldn't be trusted with, say, a hot glue gun. Perhaps buy or build your own plexiglass box to go around the printer to keep prying hands from getting burned.

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wilsonj
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by wilsonj » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:40 pm

UPUPandAway wrote: Perhaps buy or build your own plexiglass box to go around the printer to keep prying hands from getting burned.
Or get one of these to put it in! :)

http://pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 9664#p8075
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

eyUP
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by eyUP » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:29 am

Or get one of these to put it in!
Or buy an UP! Mini and lots of ABS for the same budget ;)

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wilsonj
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by wilsonj » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:22 pm

eyUP wrote:
Or get one of these to put it in!
Or buy an UP! Mini and lots of ABS for the same budget ;)
True. The enclosure will be around the price of 3-4 rolls of filament.
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Jamie
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eyUP
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Re: How much do you actually use your up! Printer

Post by eyUP » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:12 am

True. The enclosure will be around the price of 3-4 rolls of filament.
Sorry, I meant the price difference between the open UP! plus and the Mini would buy lots of ABS :oops:
Of course, if you already have an UP! then your enclosure looks ideal :)

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