Extruder cover

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krouviere
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Extruder cover

Post by krouviere » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:07 am

Just to spark a little conversation... I've heard of people making modifications to their extruder to provide better filament cooling for PLA. I've got a reel of "natural" PLA and sometimes I can get a print but more often than not the filament stops feeding and the extruder makes clicking noises.

So I started down the path of making a modified version of the extruder cover. I didn't want to hack up the original one so I made a copy that still needs refinement.

Image

The one on the left is the replacement with a hole cut out. All very unscientific at this point. Comments/suggestions welcome for PLA printing problems like this. Mine is the original style printer.

More pics here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotoman/se ... 484172564/

I made the new one out of an old CPU heat sink. I used a 4 x 7 x 2.5mm bearing which is a little shorter than the original. That's only because it's the closest thing the local hobby store had to the original and I didn't want to wait for shipping. I also have the bearing just a tiny bit too far from the filament path in this first attempt, but it's not bad considering it's the first attempt at machining a new one from a model I made from scratch in Solidworks, copying the original.

My new approach, assuming I get back to this one day, will be to validate the model with 3D prints first, then machine it. Printing is a heck of a lot easier than CNC machining :)

One more pic showing a 3D printed part vs machined part.

Image

:D

krouviere
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by krouviere » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:37 am

I failed to mention that in addition to the large hole added in this part, I'd planned on making a hole in the heat sink as well that lines up with this one, so air from the cooling fan could blow in there.

Tanu
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by Tanu » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi
I have the had the same problem as you and my Up has been out of commission. Do you have the stl file which I can get machined? Help/guidance would be much appreciated.
Tru

Fairly
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by Fairly » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:14 pm

I'd be interested in hearing how close the 3d printed version is to the CNC'ed part.

As tolerances for each manufacturing process are different, I'm expecting to have to tweak plenty of my solidworks files when I get around to getting them machined, but it would be great to hear otherwise.

krouviere
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by krouviere » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:46 pm

I'll post a link to files for this later this weekend, including an stl file.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by JuliaDee » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:52 am

Not to discourage your experimentation, but I'm curious as to why you wouldn't just use Drew Petitclerc's proven solution:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16711

which is also discussed in detail somewhere in this forum. I tried a feed gear cooler by itself without modifying the pressure mechanism, and while it did make PLA printing work a lot better than without a cooler, it didn't solve the problem entirely. I'm now looking to implement Drew's mod.

Julia

krouviere
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by krouviere » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:57 am

Thanks Julia :) That looks great. I'll check it out.

krouviere
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by krouviere » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:17 am

These zip files contain my attempt at copying the original part, except that the bearing I designed for is different than the original bearing. Bearing choice was simply because my local hobby shop didn't have the exact size and I didn't feel like ordering & waiting.

The zip file named CopyOfOriginalWithBigHole-R90.zip is the same as the other one except that I carved out a big hole with the intent of putting another hole in the heat sink to allow air from the cooling fan in.

For your entertainment... have fun.


--
Post edited: File attach seems to have failed. Will supply other links.

--
Ok here are some links:
http://blog.smallprotos.com/wp-content/ ... al-R90.zip
http://blog.smallprotos.com/wp-content/ ... le-R90.zip

(from http://blog.smallprotos.com/)

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:49 am

I hate to be the one to say this but unless you intend to only use the approved OEM filament this design will be doomed to fail, even if you get enough cooling air to suppress the pre-melt you will still run into feed failure due to diameter tolerance run-out, it is inherent to the design and that is why I changed it, every successful extruder design in some way uses a self adjusting tensioned pressure roller against the feed gear, look them up and read about it. :oops:
I don't want to be grumpy but come on guys do a little research and you can get answers to all the questions with out ever asking or going down design roads that others have dead ended unsuccessfully. :oops:

I've been a little disappointed in this forum lately as I see so many of the same questions asked that have already been answered in other posts, doesn't anybody do any homework anymore, it seems to be stagnating and this makes me sad. :cry:
I check here every day.
I've kept quite for fear of being seen as trollish :shock: and hope no one takes this personally.
I hope things change, guess I miss the earlier times. ;)
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

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JuliaDee
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by JuliaDee » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:04 pm

After running into my first serious filament diameter variation the other day (there was a 12-inch section of 1.2mm :o diameter filament in a spool from a reputable supplier that had previously been perfectly OK) I'm fully onboard with Drew here. You need a mechanism that can compensate for a pretty wide range of diameter variations in order to completely eliminate feed problems.

As to people posting the same questions, it's pretty common in virtually every forum I've participated in - people have a tendency to just post their issue(s) without searching the forum first. Sometimes searching is cumbersome or unfruitful, especially as the forum archive grows, and especially if the forum doesn't offer comprehensive advanced search options. It's also important for future searchers that people take a moment to write useful and informative subject lines for their posts, rather than "I have a problem" or "An Improvement". But yes, it's pretty inevitable - new users come along with the old questions. Helpful folks give them the old answers once again :)

julia
DrewPetitclerc wrote:I hate to be the one to say this but unless you intend to only use the approved OEM filament this design will be doomed to fail, even if you get enough cooling air to suppress the pre-melt you will still run into feed failure due to diameter tolerance run-out, it is inherent to the design and that is why I changed it, every successful extruder design in some way uses a self adjusting tensioned pressure roller against the feed gear, look them up and read about it. :oops:
I don't want to be grumpy but come on guys do a little research and you can get answers to all the questions with out ever asking or going down design roads that others have dead ended unsuccessfully. :oops:

I've been a little disappointed in this forum lately as I see so many of the same questions asked that have already been answered in other posts, doesn't anybody do any homework anymore, it seems to be stagnating and this makes me sad. :cry:
I check here every day.
I've kept quite for fear of being seen as trollish :shock: and hope no one takes this personally.
I hope things change, guess I miss the earlier times. ;)

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wackojacko
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by wackojacko » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:19 pm

There is one very important factor that is often over looked, extruding filament at a temperature that is too high than its rated temperature will cause the filament to gas and this is highly toxic, so if you are are using third party filament ensure you check out the rated remperature.
Bruce
http://www.3DPrintingSystems.com

Need help with your printer, check out our Youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/3dprinting ... /playlists

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josejuako
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by josejuako » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 am

Julia es una pesada , todo el tiempo le decimos como son las cosas pero usted no le gusta hacer caso Drew y yo estamos trabajando todos los días por mejorar la UP . Drew es un ingeniero y el ha solucionado muchos de los problemas que se presentan con la UP .

eyUP
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by eyUP » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:33 am

Julia es una pesada , todo el tiempo le decimos como son las cosas pero usted no le gusta hacer caso Drew y yo estamos trabajando todos los días por mejorar la UP . Drew es un ingeniero y el ha solucionado muchos de los problemas que se presentan con la UP
I don't really like the tone of this comment, maybe something was lost in translation, but Julia is only trying to help and inspire, she understands that not everyone or everything is perfect.
I run a phpBB forum and have to say the search feature is terrible, adding a google search box improved things considerably but I still struggle to find something that I know is in there somewhere.
It must be frustrating for the experts to keep answering the same thing over and over...that's why I make template files with all relevant links on a certain subject and just paste them in every time a newbie asks the same old question.

What frustrates me is the lack of moderation or administration in this forum - lots of things could be done to increase visibility of certain threads and reduce spam.

The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all.
Harry S. Truman

Fairly
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by Fairly » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:33 am

Open arms and helping hands are what build communities. I understand the frustrations Drew, but venting them towards someone with the very same initiative to improve and contribute that you exhibit is bad form in my opinion. Expecting noobs to be versed in the Up and your mods specifically is unrealistic at best, strangely egotistic at worst.

Julia, you are an asset to the community, please keep it up. You are very generous with your time and attention, bringing a very good energy here.

Jose, me parece que tu commentario fue algo inecesario, aunque por el nivel de tu español escrito asumo que serás un adolescente. De todas maneras, be nice dude.

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JuliaDee
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by JuliaDee » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:25 pm

Wow, José, I don't know what I have done that you must resort to calling me names in the forum. I am only here to share knowledge with other Up users - to learn from their experience and to pass on whatever observations and ideas I have that might be helpful to others.

Maybe there is some misunderstanding. When I say "I am fully onboard with Drew" it means that I agree 100% with him. I think his feed mechanism is a good design and a huge improvement, and I intend to install it on my printer as soon as possible. I already bought a machined extruder bracket from Drew's machinist, and I think your idea of cutting a slot in the bracket instead of enlarging the slot in the printer is very clever. I have recommended Drew's modifications in numerous posts to other users here.

The second part of my post was only to recommend being patient and helpful with new users here who may not think to search through the archives before posting. I'm not sure how that makes me "una pesada" :(

eyup and Fairly, thank you for your kind words.

julia
Last edited by JuliaDee on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DrewPetitclerc
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by DrewPetitclerc » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:29 pm

JuliaDee wrote:Wow, José, I don't know what I have done that you must resort to calling me names in the forum.
I'm sorry there has been some kind of misunderstanding between 2 UPers that I still hope to call friends, I should never be allowed to blog after 12 midnight, I tend to get grumpy and stupid when I get insomnia, so please accept my apologies for causing any hurt or confusion. :oops:

I know Julia has had nothing but good things to say about my upgrades and Jose has also been very good to me and I look forward to seeing where this all takes us in the future. :D

Guess I should add a disclaimer at the bottom of my post that states:
"If time stamp is after 12pm, ignore all comments as dummy is half asleep and does not know what he is saying." :P
Drew Petitclerc
Petitclerc Designs
Owner/Senior Principal Designer, prototype, tooling and test equipment design and 3D printing
http://flash-graphics.deviantart.com/
http://www.thingiverse.com/DrewPetitclerc

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josejuako
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by josejuako » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:55 am

Sigo pensando que Julia es una persona muy pesada y lo digo sin ofenderla .Le pido disculpas ya que siento que he sido muy fuerte con ella .Esto es un problema de culturas . Yo he hecho todas las indicaciones que han aparecido en este foro por los usuarios de esta maquina , al único que he visto con resultados es mi compañero Drew , yo le he seguido y he visto el cambio realmente en calidad , se ha esforzado por dar las soluciones que han sacado esta maquina adelante , cuando hice mi primera prueba sentí que había comprado un juguete costoso , hoy día después de resolver mil defectos , esta maquina funciona , le doy gracias Drew , hasta en la exploración de los materiales es líder , me gustaría que le hicieran caso al ingeniero Drew ya que se regresa y se repite lo mismo una y otra vez , yo no quiero ofender a nadie y en este foro hay mas de un profesional haciendo aportes de una o de otra forma . Si los he ofendido como lo siento les solicito me disculpen . Y no es que la UP trabaje al 100% le hace falta solucionar muchas cosas mas como la plataforma que no es estable y mas que se irán solucionando en el futuro.
Les doy gracias por su atención .

José


Nota : Agradezco las imágenes y vídeos a Drew de alta calidad como también su generosidad .

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josejuako
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by josejuako » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:36 am

A Julia le agradezco su participación , ha sido muy simpática , con sus comentarios y sus trabajos . Solo me queda por desearle que siga cosechando mas patentes y que siga jugando . Me llamo mucho la atencion la llegada de ella al foro creo que es la unica mujer que ha participado gracias a su preparación . Me gustaría que nos ayude mas en las cosas que ella ve , como resistencia marca y referencia , sensores de temperatura y no se que mas . Me di cuenta que hablaba con propiedad de estos temas . Lo pido ya que nos ahorraríamos en costo de mantenimiento . Y nuevamente le quiero pedir me disculpe , en ningún momento he querido ofenderla . Me gusta que nos acompañe.


José
Last edited by josejuako on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

DeanR
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by DeanR » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:41 am

Hi All,
Just wondered if anyone can translate Jose messages so us non Spanish speaking UPers can join in the conversation.. :)

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josejuako
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Re: Extruder cover

Post by josejuako » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:56 am

I still think Julia is a very heavy and I say this without offending her. I apologize because I feel I have been very strong with her. This is a problem of cultures. I have done all the entries have appeared on this forum for users of this machine, the only results I have seen with my partner is Drew, I have followed and seen as really change, has endeavored to give the solutions that have brought this machine on, when I did my first test I felt I had purchased an expensive toy, today after resolving a thousand defects, this machine works, thank you Drew, even in the exploration of materials is a leader, I would heed him as engineer Drew returns and repeats the same thing over and over again, I do not want to offend anyone in this forum and there are more of a professional making a contribution or otherwise. If I have offended I ask as I feel sorry for me. Not that the work UP 100% it needs to solve many other things as the platform is not stable and more that will be solved in the future.
I thank you for your attention.

Jose

Note: I appreciate the pictures and videos to high quality Drew as well as his generosity.
Last edited by josejuako on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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