UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

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ajohnsonlaird
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 am

UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by ajohnsonlaird » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:51 am

I am trying to print a tray into which an Arduino mega board will fit. You can see the 3D model here:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:99710

If you look carefully, the software models have solid side walls, but the first image shows that the sidewalls are being printed as two parallel walls with about 0.1 mm airgap between them. When I pinch the side walls together with a caliper the total thickness is about 1.4mm.

This is the same problem that I have -- when I printed this model on the Up Plus 2, sure enough, all the vertical walls print as a two parallel walls. But when I zoom way in the Up software (see the attached image), it appears that the side walls should be solid. I have the Part Fill set to Solid.

The area around the screw hole in the low left hand corner does print as solid ABS.

What can I do to make this print with actual solid walls please?

Thanks
Andy.
Attachments
Arduino case side wall.jpg
Note side wall appears solid
Arduino case side wall.jpg (71.99 KiB) Viewed 8013 times
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UpBox and UP Plus 2 : Forensic Software Analyst : Portland, Oregon, USA.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by roller » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:35 pm

ALL ... and I mean ALL filament based 3D printers have an issue with this. There is a minimum space that the algorithm is willing to place infill in to. Here are the things for you to try - what fits best for you will depend on the geometry for the rest of your print:

- Thinner walls will eventually combine to for a solid wall though thinner than 0.8m and the wall will not print at all.
- Thicker wall will successfully infill
- The thickness is assess at X and Y so rotatating the print 45 degrees the software will see the wall as thicker and infill it (sometimes)
- The thickness of perimeters wall and the permissible width between them that can't be infilled is a factor of layer height. Just by printing with a thinner layer height (try 0.15) might get you infill - combine it with 45 degree rotation and you're almost assured to get it.

So play with those variable and I'm sure you'll get the output you want.

Some folk do obsess over exactly how thick it needs to be at a given layer height and bother to right it down. I run through so many slicing programs (lots of repraps) and algorithms even change a little between Up software versions so I got sick of updating and just experiment quickly when I hit a problem print.

ajohnsonlaird
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 am

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by ajohnsonlaird » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:18 pm

roller wrote:ALL ... and I mean ALL filament based 3D printers have an issue with this. There is a minimum space that the algorithm is willing to place infill in to. Here are the things for you to try - what fits best for you will depend on the geometry for the rest of your print:

- Thinner walls will eventually combine to for a solid wall though thinner than 0.8m and the wall will not print at all.
Understood.
roller wrote: - Thicker wall will successfully infill
Yeah, that seem to be the algorithm that was being used.
roller wrote: - The thickness is assess at X and Y so rotatating the print 45 degrees the software will see the wall as thicker and infill it (sometimes)
That's a good idea. Thanks for that.

- The thickness of perimeters wall and the permissible width between them that can't be infilled is a factor of layer height. Just by printing with a thinner layer height (try 0.15) might get you infill - combine it with 45 degree rotation and you're almost assured to get it.
[/quote]

You read my mind. I was wondering exactly that as I read your response above. :)
roller wrote: So play with those variable and I'm sure you'll get the output you want.

Some folk do obsess over exactly how thick it needs to be at a given layer height and bother to right it down. I run through so many slicing programs (lots of repraps) and algorithms even change a little between Up software versions so I got sick of updating and just experiment quickly when I hit a problem print.
Yeah. I could see how obsessing over that could push one towards the cliff edge!

Thanks
Andy.
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UpBox and UP Plus 2 : Forensic Software Analyst : Portland, Oregon, USA.

mr6k
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by mr6k » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:52 pm

I do wonder whether we will ever see software/firmware allowing walls of less than 1mm.

I have just seen some results from a kit build 3D printer, the Velleman K8200. A kit for £699 from UK supplier. The print was of some 45 degree lattice work between 2 beams, the lattice cross pieces were 0.5mm in section and printed perfectly. Of course when I try to print them with the UP all I get is the outer beams! Now I know the UP was launched as a plug and go printer, but by now there must be hundreds of users out there who have enough knowledge to want to try thinner walls.

Most frustrating to see a £700 kit printer beat an UP, and it has a print volume of 200mm x 200mm x 200mm !!

cheers

Peter

ajohnsonlaird
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 am

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by ajohnsonlaird » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:26 pm

Thanks for the info, Peter.
Interesting to see it print such fine detail.

FWIW, it's also available in the USA (although there's only one left! :) ):

http://www.amazon.com/Velleman-K8200-3D ... B00E4WFRHQ

Andy.
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UpBox and UP Plus 2 : Forensic Software Analyst : Portland, Oregon, USA.

roller
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by roller » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:29 am

Well as I pointed out this is a software issue and has nothing to do with the printer. Unfortunately with a closed system like the Up you can't change much to make it easy to get good prints. I can go to some of the more complicated software with my open source printer and print almost anything but it's a lot of work to get all details resolving properly and dimensionally accurate... and I still don't have removable support at the end of the day. There is still always a trade off at the moment with all printer software ... ease of use vs customisabiility vs intelligent (but often confused) optimisation.

ajohnsonlaird
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 am

Re: UP Plus 2 fails to print solid vertical walls

Post by ajohnsonlaird » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:39 pm

Good point, roller.

I suspect, as far as 3D printing is concerned, we're still at the bi-plane stage of aviation! :)
I also suspect that the UP Plus 3 will not be too far away and that that will move us forward....

Andy.
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UpBox and UP Plus 2 : Forensic Software Analyst : Portland, Oregon, USA.

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