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UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:45 am
by gordon37
Model is from http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:704409

Yellow is using 2.17 software
Printer: UP BOX, 0.15mm, no support, Normal Speed, lowest infill, 3 layers of wall, thin wall ticked
White was printed using 2.15 software, same setting without thin wall
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Re: UP 2.17 Software Test pint of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:46 am
by gordon37
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Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:02 am
by Ian Smith
Looks impressive. Good detail and definition. However I do wonder what the main purpose of "thin wall" is.

I'm just a casual user and use my UP Plus mainly for small items for radio control yachts.
Having seen the attached photos I thought the thin wall option in v2.17 would do nicely.

Unfortunately, it seems I get far better quality without the "thin wall" option.
I've tried to take some shots but the pieces are small and I don't have a good camera so - no pics, just a screen dump
The piece is 1.25 cm long and 5mm high, and 5 mm wide, with three 1 mm through holes evenly spaced along its length

The print quality of the piece is far better without the "thin wall" option selected.
With the option selected the holes close over and the overall finish is poor, so can somebody please enlighten me as to its primary purpose

Thank you

Regards

Ian

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:49 am
by pp3dp.nl
Thanks for the test Gordon, that is helpful!

It would be nice to know the specifics about this feature, I even missed that it was an option :oops: Because of Ian's post I looked and it's a tick box before printing.

So what does this exactly do, what is a thin wall? Is it 0.5 mm? Will printing a single wall be posssible? I know the Up slicer didn't do this in the past but it could be possible to extrude one line in stead of two like open source slicers do.

As always knowledge is key, if we know what this function means and does we can choose when to use it. And I can explain to others if and when to pick this option.

But I do like TierTime is still adding features, thanks! Maybe the fact it is an option could mean it's a test to see if people use it because it improves printing quality.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:58 am
by roller
Ian Smith wrote:Looks impressive. Good detail and definition. However I do wonder what the main purpose of "thin wall" is.
With older software typically anything thinner than 0.8mm and always anything thinner than 0.6mm in X and Y would disappear and leave a mess of partially deleted features like shown in the white samples. Many people would not have a use for this but those of us that do this is a godsend and something we've been waiting for. I often print scale architectural models and lots of details end up smaller than 1mm, many get lost. Usually I have to thicken up in another program to make the object printable.

This feature is awesome :)

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:23 am
by gordon37
totally agree with roller,
this indeed enables smaller scale printing.
just realised that my setting of # of layers is 3 not 2.
I may try another print with wall layer set to 2.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:26 pm
by pp3dp.nl
@gordon37: I'm not 100% sure but I believe I once heard the layer setting for the part is only for the bottom (and maybe top) not the walls. I thought they are always 1 - 1.5 mm thick. But I never measured, hopefully you can check for us and measure.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:35 pm
by roller
pp3dp.nl wrote:@gordon37: I'm not 100% sure but I believe I once heard the layer setting for the part is only for the bottom (and maybe top) not the walls. I thought they are always 1 - 1.5 mm thick. But I never measured, hopefully you can check for us and measure.
I think you are right there. Although layer height does certainly impact minimal wall size because of it's relationship to extrusion width. Gordon37, you might want to try different layer heights.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:16 am
by pp3dp.nl
I found this picture in the latest Up Box manual, it will answer some of our questions. We should all RTFM more :lol: This picture has some info I didn't know as well..
It confirms what I was asking Jason about support settings in another thread: dense support is support higher than raft so it is adjustable up to 6 layers. Sadly raft layers are not affected by this. I would like the option for choosing raft support layers, the red part in the picture (sorry for nagging ;) ). But apparently dense support also defines the support layers inside the model - so the top layers.
The green part is surface, so only bottom layers in a model are affected by this setting.
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Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:09 pm
by roller
Not to be a topic Nazi but how does that relate to thin wall printing?

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:06 pm
by pp3dp.nl
If you mean my post about wall thickness information:

Well you participated yourself in this conversation that organically came to this info. I wanted to share the picture with the poster, pardon me. OP talked about thin walls and number of wall layers.

Gordon: ''3 layers of wall''

Roller: ''anything thinner than 0.8mm''

Gordon: ''just realised that my setting of # of layers is 3 not 2.
I may try another print with wall layer set to 2.''

Me: '' layer setting for the part is only for the bottom''

Roller: '' layer height does certainly impact minimal wall size''

Me: ''very informative picture about wall thickness :D , picture shows this cannot be changed - at least that is what I made out of it''

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:07 pm
by Woodlake
I have run a few test prints with the new "thin wall" option, and have say that the results are fantastic.
It definitely makes a different on tiny detailed printed parts.
Many thanks to Tiertime for the continued support of their software.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:12 pm
by gordon37
ok, here goes,
blue printed with 0.2mm, no support, Normal Speed, lowest infill, 2 layers of wall, thin wall ticked
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Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:10 pm
by Billzilla
Any negatives to leaving the Thin Wall box ticked all the time?

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:38 am
by mb20music
Billzilla wrote:Any negatives to leaving the Thin Wall box ticked all the time?
Well, it won't stay "ticked", it clears itself after every print...

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:42 pm
by Woodlake
I noticed that too. I 'm guessing it means it's probably not designed to be on for all manner of prints.
I have only enabled it on very small/fine prints and haven't bothered to try it on anything that technically wouldn't benefit from it.

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:32 pm
by arhi
is there, explanation, anywhere, why the hack the wall below 0.8 or 0.6mm is a problem in the first place?! The nozzle on the up is .35 or .4mm single "line" wall can easily be 0.5mm?! The thin wall feature make the thin walls present but they are pretty fat (~0.8-1mm). I don't see the G-Code so don't see what's being printed but it looks like every wall is printed with min 2 parallel lines, why? When you select you want only surface those thin walls are printed ok and lot thinner then with thin-wall regular print.. that's weird?! I'm getting a 0.2mm wall without any problems on my home made reprap with .5mm nozzle and 3mm filament, it should be easier to get the same thing with .35 nozzle, 1.75mm filament that's "of controlled quality" and "smart software" ?!

Re: UP 2.17 Software Test print of the new Thin Wall option

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:44 am
by Protolink3d
I think from my understanding it is because the software has to print a Front, Back, Left, Right wall to make a watertight 3d model. I may be wrong but this is how it looks for me. Also have those pesky double walls with no infill between them which I still can't get to work OK. So if nozzle width is 0.4mm with a little bit of expansion of the plastic as it is extruded and placed on the print surface you can expect perhaps a 0.5mm wide single wall. Because the printer has to print a front and back on a wall (That is for a model, not support) you will get a 0.8mm to 1mm thick wall.

I don't know if this can be overcome. But I would like to see it does. Maybe this Thin Wall does it ?